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Gold Coast Doulas

January 2019

Pregnancy and Depression

Podcast Episode #60: A Naturopath’s Perspective on Pregnancy and Depression

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Doctor Janna Hibler, ND talks to Alyssa and Kristin about how a naturopathic doctor treats pregnant and postpartum women, body and mind.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes and SoundCloud.

Alyssa:  Hello, welcome to Ask the Doulas podcast.  I am Alyssa Veneklase, co-owner of Gold Coast Doulas, and I am here with Kristin, my business partner today, and Janna Hibler.  She’s a naturopathic doctor and clinical nutritionist.  Hello, Janna!

Janna:  Hi, how’s it going, guys?

Alyssa:  So Kristin and I met you at a little gathering of the minds at Grand Rapids Natural Health Recently.  We kind of hit it off, and then you and I got coffee, and we hit it off even further.  We got to chatting forever, so we were like, let’s just pause this and record our conversation!  And today, first, I want to know a little bit more about what you do, but when the two of us were talking, we spoke quite a bit about postpartum depression, and I want to talk about what happens leading up to that, even before you get pregnant, but then during pregnancy, too.  What does that look like?  What do depression and anxiety look like?  How do we nip that in the bud?

Janna:  Yeah, definitely!  So it’s really important for all of us mamas and future mamas to know that how we are before we get pregnant and give birth is a good indicator of how our health might look like after we give birth.  Things you mentioned such as anxiety or depression tend to get more severe after we give birth just because of the extreme stress and sleep deprivation that we are under, having a newborn.  I like to emphasize to my patients that this is nothing to feel bad about.  It’s just when you don’t sleep, you don’t release the same neurotransmitters and have the same brain chemistry with certain levels of uppers and feel-good hormones.  So it’s kind of…

Alyssa:  I’m obviously a big proponent of sleep for babies and parents.  So what would you tell a parent who says I’m not even pregnant yet; I’m thinking about getting pregnant.  How does a person even know if they have depression or anxiety?  And what do you do about it?  Let’s say that I’m kind of a depressed person or I get anxious about things at work or with my friends or my family.  What do you recommend?  And then let’s say I came to see you as a naturopathic doctor.

Janna:  So again, I like to really emphasize that you are normal and this is a normal part of being a female.  If we’re talking evolutionarily speaking, we were made to be out in nature, and so when we’re put in the city, even if we’re out half an hour from Grand Rapids downtown, there’s a lot of lights.  There’s a lot of noises.  There’s a lot of things going on that cause an overresponse, and that can lead to anxiety and depression.  So some symptoms might be feeling nervous in certain situations or some OCD tendencies, or a lower mood display and laughing less or getting less excited about certain things in life.  These can be very mild, but if you look at them over the course of the day, if you have a lot of little things, they do add up.  So when you walk into a naturopathic doctor’s office, something I really love and take to heart is that we have our medical concentration, but we also have a lot of education with psychology and knowing how the brain works.  So I would ask you a bunch of questions; the normal medical questions you get, but in addition, we’re going to ask about your sleep cycles, your exercise, your diet regimen.  All these play a part in our mental health, and my end goal is for everybody to feel their best all the time.  In order to find out how people are feeling, I like to run a series of either urinary or blood tests.  This can give us an indication of brain chemistry, hormone levels, cortisol, in addition to the normal things like checking sugar and red blood cells.  I really like to hone in on these specialty tests because by checking our brain chemistry, I can find exactly what neurotransmitters might be high or low, and we can treat appropriately.

Alyssa:  So when you talk about neurotransmitters, what does that mean?  What are you looking at and what does that mean to you?

Janna:  So our neurotransmitters; there’s the common ones we’ve all heard of like dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, epinephrine, even histamine.  There is a whole slew of uppers and downers, and basically, we take the brain chemistry analysis tests so we can see if some of them are off.  Some people that have allergies have high histamine levels.  That’s an upper, so when we have allergies, those people actually tend to have anxiety, as well.  And so we can actually nip the anxiety in the bud by treating the allergies and reducing histamine levels.  So it’s really a cool science.

Alyssa:  And the cortisol and serotonin and melatonin, all those things you can actually check with blood and urine?

Janna:  Exactly, yeah.

Kristin:  And a lot of women have issues with their thyroid; is that part of the testing, that you can check thyroid levels?

Janna:  Absolutely.  I like to refer to it as our hormone triangle where we have our thyroid as the king, our sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone, and then we have our cortisol.  All three of those categories play a huge role in our hormone development and picture that we have, so we do a lot of intensive testing to find out where those levels are at.

Alyssa:  And what would you do if I came in and my cortisol levels were sky-high and you noticed something with my thyroid?  What would you tell me to do?

Janna:  So depending on your lab results, the thyroid could be treated in two ways.  One, sometimes we do give conventional medications, and then another way to treat, depending on your levels, is with herbs.  We can give a series of botanical herbs to actually bring your levels back to normal, as well as certain nutrients.  There’s a number of co-factors that actually feed our thyroid hormone to turn from its inactive to active form, and without them, we will not function.  So that’s things like vitamin D and iron and vitamin C; very common nutrients that we take for granted, but they play a vital role in our thyroid health.

Alyssa:  So how long do you test that out before you put them on a drug?

Janna:  Typically, I like to give a patient three to six months to see if we can fix it with nutrients and herbs.  Again, it comes back to what the patient wants.  If a patient wants results this month, then we might take a more aggressive treatment plan.  But if they’re willing to do it completely naturally, then three to six months.

Alyssa:  So let’s say I get it under control; I’m pregnant, and I still notice now that I still have some anxiety or depression.  What do you do during pregnancy?

Janna:  I really like to encourage diet and exercise and sleep.  Those are our biggest best friends to really help out.  Different lifestyle factors can have a huge effect on our mood and behavior.  So let’s start with maybe some foods.  We could eat a diet rich in dopamine, so we could do things like chocolate.  I mean, who doesn’t love chocolate?  We all love it, but do we know it’s high in magnesium and it’s high in zinc?  Those are vital co-factors to run our brain chemistry.  We can also have blueberries or nuts and seeds, which are high in vitamin B6 and 9 and all these B vitamins to help also with our mood.  We could do some grass-fed or fermented foods, which help with our gastrointestinal health, which again, I’m sure you guys have all heard of the gut being the second brain.  And then sulfur; sulfur-rich foods like onions and garlic that actually help with detox, so if we are having some things get backed up, we can help get them out.  So we really try to approach it from a multifactorial view hitting all points.  How’s our diet?  How’s our exercise?  How’s our sleep?  How’s our stress?  And a lot of what I get into with patients, too, is how is your relationship at home?  Do you feel supported?  Do you feel loved?  Do you feel heard by your partner?  By your business partners, your coworkers?  These are all part of our needs that play a role in our mental health when we’re pregnant and when we’re not pregnant.

Alyssa:  I was going to say those are things that should be carried over throughout, right?

Janna:  Yeah, yeah!

Alyssa:  Meanwhile, exercising and getting enough sleep.

Janna:  Totally, and pregnancy just kind of is that opportunity where we find our weaknesses in our body, and it’s actually a great opportunity to increase our health for the rest of our life and find out things we wouldn’t know about it unless we were pregnant.

Alyssa:  Oftentimes, I feel like that is the point in a woman’s brain and body where we finally start to understand and care about what’s happening to our body, and because we’re growing another human, then we’re like, oh, I better start taking care of myself so that I can take care of this baby.

Janna: Yeah, and I think that has a lot to do with what happens after we give birth and why a lot of moms struggle.  I mean, I want to say that loud on this podcast right now that mom life is hard.  It is a struggle, and I know we all try to put on a face that we’re doing well and everything’s perfect at home, but mom life is hard, and that’s maybe another podcast sometime, but that’s a conversation I’d love to get started because it is hard, and to that extent, why we have a hard time after birth is a lot of the time – and I’m sure you guys see this all the time, being in the house with moms – that the moms forget about themselves.  They put all of their energy, all of their love, into their baby, and I was guilty of it, too.  I mean, I have a two-year-old, and I definitely did it.  I’m still guilty of it some days because we love that human so, so much.  But I think it’s really important for our mental health and as mothers to put the energy back into ourselves and remember that we really can’t pour from an empty cup, and we have to be healthy and strong ourselves in order to make strong and healthy babies.

Alyssa:  So what do you recommend to a mom who’s suffering from depression?  You know, maybe they had a beautiful pregnancy, easy labor and delivery, and then they’re like, oh, my God; this is way harder than I thought, and then sink into a depression that they’ve never experienced before.  How do you get them out that?

Janna:  And so many moms do!  There are so, so many out there that come in, and they’re like, not even my husband knows how sad I am; not even my best friend knows how sad I am, and that’s where I really encourage everyone to just start reaching out.  I don’t want you to be ashamed; I don’t want you to feel guilty, because it doesn’t mean you’re a bad mom.  You’re an excellent mom because you care so, so much, and asking for that help and taking that first step, making people aware that this is something I do need help with, and receiving that love.  From a medical standpoint, too, we’ll go in and I’ll help adjust hormones and your brain chemistry with either herbs or conventional treatments or nutrient levels to help your body, but I think so much of it also comes from a mental and emotional spot of feeling supported and loved by your people around you.

Alyssa:  So is naturopathic medicine, in general, more of a functional approach versus the medical approach or kind of a combination?

Janna:  Exactly, yeah, and functional medicine is so great.  That is the bridge between conventional medicine and natural medicine because we all agree on it, you know.  We see a lab level, and it’s important to attend to it when it’s on its lower level.  Traditionally-minded thinking, we only would treat something like vitamin D if it was set low because that’s the level that can cause rickets and true mobility issues, but what about everybody that has low-normal, that they’re in that functional, funky range?  That’s at a stage that can cause depression, that you can get autoimmune diseases.  So as a naturopathic doctor, I really work on treating it then and now so we can prevent getting those diseases because they may not pop up in five or even ten years, but they will happen if they’re not treated.

Kristin:  Even in pregnancy, there’s evidence that preeclampsia with the lack of vitamin D, that can be a factor in developing preeclampsia.

Janna:  Exactly, and that’s how it can be that simple sometimes where moms come in and, hey, they just want to run a nutrient panel just to find out what are their baseline nutrients, and then that way when breastfeeding comes into play, especially for extended breastfeeding – I’ve been breastfeeding for two and a half years, so that’s something I’ve been keeping a constant eye on, what are my nutrient levels, because we don’t want to cause other problems from just being depleted.  So yeah, that’s a great point.

Alyssa:  Depleted is a good word to describe mothers postpartum, I think.  Most of us at some point just feel depleted, whether it’s mentally, physically, whether it’s just breastfeeding.  That alone can make you feel depleted; this baby is literally sucking the life out of me!

Janna:  Because you’re giving everything!

Kristin:  I tandem nursed, so I really felt depleted when I was nursing two!

Alyssa:  It’s like this weird tug of war between “I love doing this” and “I hate doing this so much.”  I remember getting so over it when I was done, and then a month later I missed it.  I was like, oh, my God; I’m not breastfeeding anymore!  But I was so ready to throw those pump accessories in the trash and celebrate, but it’s just a weird…

Janna:  It is!  And every mom is different, so we like to celebrate moms at each level, whether they want to breastfeed for three months or six months or a year.  We all have our breaking point, and we want to prevent us from getting to that point.  Mama matters, too!

Kristin:  For sure!

Alyssa:  Well, thank you so much for joining us, and if people want to find you to come visit you or just ask you questions or follow you on Instagram, where do they find you?

Janna:  Absolutely!  So I’m currently accepting patients at Grand Rapids Natural Health, and I’m also on social media as holisticmommyandmedoc, and you can reach out there anytime.  My name is Janna Hibler on Facebook, and feel free to message me anytime.  I like to get to know my mamas.  Since I just moved from Vermont, I’m looking to build up my network of mamas because we are a tribe and we all need to stick with each other, so whether it’s personally or professionally, I do want to link up with you!

Alyssa:  Thank you so much!

Kristin:  Thanks, Janna!  We appreciate it!

 

Podcast Episode #60: A Naturopath’s Perspective on Pregnancy and Depression Read More »

Adoption

Doula Support for Adoptive Families

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Most parents probably don’t think about hiring a doula if they aren’t pregnant. They think of a birth doula only supporting a laboring mother, but that couldn’t be farther from reality. Birth doulas can support any parent. Postpartum doulas can support adoptive families by helping them to prepare for baby’s arrival and in-home after baby arrives. There are so many ways doulas can support families that are adopting!

At Gold Coast we are focused on educating parents. We offer several prenatal and postnatal classes to help new parents navigate this new territory. We offer a Newborn Survival class that goes over essentials of surviving those first few weeks and months home with your baby. Real life scenarios and raw topics are discussed to help parents feel confident in their roles.

We also offer a Prenatal Stress class. This is designed for any parent, pregnant or adopting, to understand the affects that stress has on a developing child’s brain, not just throughout pregnancy but through their growing years as well.

Infant Massage is a great way for adoptive parents to bond with a new baby. Our instructor offers classes as well as private in-home instruction. Another great way to bond is babywearing. We have a certified babywearing expert that does in-home instruction and can show you how to safely use your carrier(s).

For parents that might be bringing multiples home (twins or even triplets) we offer a Preparing for Multiples class, and we have a postpartum doula that is a mother of twins herself. Her in-home support, expertise, tips, and tricks are invaluable!

If grandparents will be primary care givers, we offer a class called The Modern Grandparent that updates them on the latest safety information as well as informs them about today’s parent and how parenting styles differ from generations past.

Our lactation consultant can help adoptive mothers induce lactation and can also offer advice about chest feeding.

At Gold Coast, our postpartum doulas are available day and night. Daytime support includes help with baby bonding, newborn care, help with older siblings, meal prep, and evidence based resources. Your postpartum doula is your trusted guide for anything baby related. Overnight support allows parents to get a full nights rest while the doula takes care of the baby through the night. The doula will feed the baby, burp, change diapers, etc allowing the parent(s) to get as much rest as possible knowing there is an experienced professional caring for their child. 

A postpartum doula is an amazing gift idea for baby showers! We can create a custom insert for your shower invitations and you can also register online for any of our services at EcoBuns Baby + Co online.

We also offer Gentle Sleep Consultations. Sleep is critical for adults and babies. Babies needs proper sleep for brain development and physiological growth. Parents need sleep to help manage the day to day obstacles of parenthood as well as for basic health and wellness.

We also have doulas specially trained in grief that can help you through loss.

Some of the trusted resources we suggest to families are:

Kelly Mom https://kellymom.com/category/parenting/ Athough there is alot of information about breastfeeding on this site, there are some relevant parenting and adoptive parenting tips as well.

This link features several apps our clients like. http://redtri.com/apps-every-new-parent-needs/slide/3

The Baby Connect Tracker App is also popular with our clients. https://www.baby-connect.com

At Gold Coast Doulas, we pride ourselves on being the premier doula agency in West Michigan. We offer judgment-free support to all families regardless of their parenting styles. We are here for your family, wherever you are in your journey.

 

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Healthy living for pregnancy

Podcast Episode #59: Healthy Living For Preconception, Pregnancy, and Beyond

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Laura from Real Food Wellness talks with us today about how she helps women through preconception, pregnancy, and postpartum with healthy living, mind and body.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes or SoundCloud.

 

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas with Gold Coast Doulas.  I’m Kristin, and today, we have my business partner Alyssa, and Laura Burkett is joining us from Real Food Wellness.  Welcome, Laura!

Laura:  Hi!

Kristin:  So Laura and I met maybe three years ago at a postpartum women’s class that I took, and you spoke about nutrition and wellness, and my friend Amber Kilpatrick ran the series.  We recently reconnected because our offices are in the same space, so it’s good to see you again!

Laura:  Yes, it’s great to be here with you!

Kristin:  And I’ve been following your blog and website over the years, and your content’s so valuable.  So I’d love for you to tell our listeners about the work that you do.

Laura:  Sure!  I have been in private practice since 2009.  My business is called Real Food Wellness.  The bulk of my work is with women, and I work, really, in the realm of holistic nutrition and the psychology of eating.  So basically, I’ve taken two separate disciplines, nutrition and psychology, and found a way to really bridge them together.  It tends to be really good work for women because I’ve noticed that just printing out lists of things you’re supposed to do and not do doesn’t really get us so far.  So that’s really the core of my work is one-on-one.

Kristin:  It’s amazing!  So obviously we work with women as well, so we have some overlap.  Today’s episode is focused on getting your body and mind ready for pregnancy, and we have a lot of clients who struggle with fertility or who hire us and then miscarry, unfortunately.  Or they may have had an easy time with fertility with baby number one and then struggled the second time.  So tell us about some of the work that you do with clients to prepare for a healthy pregnancy.

Laura:  Yeah, so I have worked with a handful of women who have come in really wanting to be ahead of the game in terms of how to create an ideal environment or as ideal as they can when they’re trying to conceive.  There’s so many variables, but I think just in general for women, how do we create a low-stress state in the female body?  Of course, a lot of that has to do with how we’re caring for our bodies, and of course we’re multidimensional beings, but if we’re working from a really practical standpoint, you know, you can think of basic things just for all women: an anti-inflammatory diet, making sure that you’re getting good omega-threes in the diet.  If you get really fixated on minerals and nutrients, it can start to be kind of overwhelming, but in general, if you’re eating a wide variety of fruits and vegetables, especially dark leafy greens, plenty of fruit, and good quality protein for those that eat animal protein, you generally are in a good place.  So for some women, if that’s a real edge, like if they’re not used to working with their diet, that’s a perfect portal in to just start working with how do I improve it now and get my body in a place where inflammation is down and that sort of thing.

Kristin:  So what else goes outside of nutrition?  How else can a woman prepare for a healthy pregnancy?

Laura:  I mean, if we stay in the same vein as caring for the physical body just for a moment, it’s basic things like exercise, 30 to 60 minutes of moderate exercise, just for health, most days of the week.  Anything that she loves to do; you know, they say the best kind of exercise is the kind you’ll actually do.  But I also notice outside of that with several of the women that I’ve worked with, part of the reason that they’re coming in is they’re also trying to reconcile what this means in terms of their identity in relationship to their body.  In trying to conceive, there are changes with the body and their relationship with eating, so if the relationship with eating feels a little strained or challenged, it’s often a very wise thing in preconception to start working through these things now so that they aren’t thrust into panic or chaos as the body is undergoing a lot of change.  So I find that half of the work can be really practical, but then you really can see that half is the heart and soul of the woman who is already deep in the process, even with the idea of conceiving.  So it can be really beautiful work, and mothers are living examples to their children, so it’s so important that we learn how to get in a right relationship with eating and with our bodies.

Kristin:  So true!  I taught a Sacred Pregnancy class for many years, and it’s an eight-week series where women connect with each other.  And one of the sessions was focused on body image and nutrition and women were raw and real with each other, and there were so many women that had eating disorders in the past, and it was affecting how they viewed themselves in pregnancy.  They wanted to have a healthy pregnancy and were worried about eating the right things but also potentially not gaining too much weight, and there were a lot of underlying issues behind that.

Laura:  Yeah, it’s wildly common.  It’s good to talk about.  It’s good to shed light on, and I’ve found that there’s three different ways you can work with it.  One is prior to conception; one of it is, of course, during pregnancy, and then, of course, after you’ve given birth, new stories and new edges arise in that, and it can be difficult when you’re going it alone, but when there’s space to really process, it helps.  I’ve talked to a handful of women who have found that it was actually through their pregnancy that they were able to transform much of their relationship with eating because they almost had to be forced, and I’ll say in a really beautiful way, to learn how to — what it means to nourish, like to really, really nourish.  So that is such a core theme for any woman at any stage in life, but particularly important for mothers or mothers-to-be.  What does it actually mean to really care for myself?  And when we ask it in a way that’s really sincere, we do kind of drop back into our center and somewhere in us we actually already know, and we already know the ways that we’re forcing or yanking ourselves through things.  So there’s a responsibility in that, and it’s quite lovely, too, if you’re willing, if you’re up for the task.  But I love that there’s groups out there and locally that are supporting women.  The work that you’re doing; sometimes it’s not easy.

Kristin:  Alyssa, any last thoughts?

Alyssa:  One thing you said about a woman’s relationship with eating: we didn’t really talk about the postpartum end of it, and I do sleep consultations.  And I sometimes see when I ask — because feeding goes hand in hand with sleeping with a baby, so if they’re older and eating solids, sometimes I notice that mom could be giving almost like diet foods to their baby.  You know, as an adult, I don’t want to eat too many carbs.  Sometimes I feel like you’re looking at the mother’s relationship with eating through how she’s allowing her child to eat, and a 12- or 18-month-old can’t have a no-carb diet.  They need carbohydrates for brain development and for proper sleep.  So I just wondered about if you had thoughts on that.

Laura:  I do!  Oh, my gosh; it’s so important.  Yes, as a practitioner, even if it’s not explicit, what I’m kind of sniffing out for is where does an intellectual intervention need to come in?  Like, what I’m tracking is what does my client believe about eating; what does she believe about weight?  What even regulates weight?  So is it okay to eat at night?  Can I combine proteins and carbs?  This is stuff that people are Googling constantly, so that’s why I’ll spend an hour with people is because it’s not as simple, like I said, as printing out a list.  We really have to understand the context in which a woman is eating, so it’s such a good point.  It’s interesting; I hadn’t even thought about it in that way, but yeah, we certainly can project our eating beliefs onto our children, no doubt.  So it’s just wise to keep an ear out for that sort of thing.

Kristin:  Yeah, I can definitely see how psychology and nutrition interplay in a lot of this, so it makes complete sense.  So tell us about how women can connect with you, work with you, and fill us in a bit for those who have not been on your website and seen your newsletter and blog and so on.

Laura:  Yes, so I can be found at my website.  You’ll find a blog that I’ve written for several years, so there’s lot of content there.  You can reach me there, and then also if you’re just interested in following my work, you can find me on Facebook and also on Instagram, and those would probably be the best places to find me.  I post upcoming events and also just information on working one-on-one together.

Kristin:  And your office is in East Town in the Kingsley Building.  As far as events in the community, do you have anything upcoming or anything in the works?

Laura:  Let’s see.  I do have a few things coming up.  Next week at Refresh Wellness off of Cascade in Grand Rapids, I’m giving a community talk on the psychology of eating and body weight.  It will be a one-hour class, so hopefully people that kind of want a doorway in will go to that.  And then later in the winter, I will be teaching some Ayurveda workshops, so for those that have an interest in more of those ancient nutrition theories, it’s really a fun, engaging class.  So you can also find that information online, too.

Kristin:  And they can go to your website for that info, or do they need to go to the studios directly?

Laura:  Their best bet is going to social media.  I’m a one-woman show, so I do need to update my website, but yes, the information is always up to date on social media.

Kristin:  Well, thanks for sharing tips with us today about how to have a healthy preconception stage to ensure a healthy pregnancy!  It’s been great chatting with you.

Podcast Episode #59: Healthy Living For Preconception, Pregnancy, and Beyond Read More »

Sleep coach

Podcast Episode #58: Sleep Misconceptions

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Gentle Sleep Consultant, Alyssa Veneklase, talks about the most common misconceptions around sleep training.  If your baby sleeps through the night will your milk supply dry up?  Can a baby really self-soothe?  Will my baby feel abandoned?  You can listen to this complete podcast on iTunes or SoundCloud.

 

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas with Gold Coast Doulas.  This is Kristin, co-owner of Gold Coast Doulas, and I’m here with my business partner Alyssa.  And we chatted a while ago about sleep, and we are coming back to some of the top misconceptions related to sleep and training babies, as well as young children.

Alyssa:  I get a lot of people asking questions just because there are so many misconceptions about what a sleep trainer does.  So I listed a few of the most common, and I figured I’d kind of run through those.

Kristin:  Great!

Alyssa:  So the first one is that we let babies cry for hours.  So everyone has heard of cry-it-out.

Kristin:  The dreaded cry-it-out.

Alyssa:  And that is not something I do.  So I would tell parents that if a sleep consultant is telling you to let your baby cry for hours, please don’t listen to them.  I don’t think we should ever let our children cry for hours because it’s not healthy for anybody, and it’s just going to make baby and parents both miserable.  But babies do cry; there’s no way to not have a baby cry.  Day and night, they’re going to cry.  That’s their only form of communication.  But not all cries mean distress.  They cry when they’re hungry.  They cry when they’re tired.  They cry when they’re sad, angry, hot, cold, bored.  It’s up to the parents to learn to distinguish those cries, and that means paying attention to what’s happening.  So, for instance, if there’s a loud noise outside: the phone rings, the dog barks, maybe the sun shines in their eyes through the window, or they yawn and then start crying.  If you’re paying attention to what was happening to them around when they started crying, you’ll begin to understand why they’re crying and what that cry means.  You can’t assume that all cries mean the same thing, and I run across that with parents.  “She cried, so she’s hungry.”  Or, “Oh, she cried, so she’s tired.”  And that would be like if you stood up and stubbed your toe, and I offered you a sandwich.  I’m not listening to what your cry means.  I’m not listening to you, and therefore, you can’t trust me, that I’m actually paying attention to what you’re telling me.

I talk about this a lot in my newborn survival class, that we need to listen and pay attention to our children, no matter how young, because when we respond accordingly, we begin to build that trust.  So when your child cries and you notice the tired signs, it’s important to react accordingly: put them in their crib.  And then depending on the child’s temperament, we soothe them to sleep in a method that makes sense for them.  So we don’t do what a friend did for their child; we don’t do what our mom did for us.  Each child is different, so that’s my job to figure out when I speak with my clients.  And then I also have them fill out a really extensive intake form, so I know their child’s current routine.  I figure out the parents’ parenting methods and the temperament of the child, and then depending on what the parents have tried already, I ask about their successes and failures and what their goals are.  We come up with a plan that’s specific for them, and then I assure them that nothing ever includes hours of crying.  No parent ever asks for that.

But again, depending on the temperament of the child, and sometimes it has to do with how many other kids are in the home, or does Mom have to go back to work in a week?  She might want a really fast method, and that might be what I call controlled crying, where we’re going to say, if you’re comfortable with ten minutes at a time, we’re going to let baby cry for ten minutes at a time before we go in and intervene and try to help them soothe.  So, again, it’s up to their parenting method and if they’re in a rush or if they have a month to give it.

Kristin:  That makes sense.

Alyssa:  I’ve also heard that, well, I’m not going to be able to bond with my baby anymore if they can put themselves to sleep.  So many parents think that, and I don’t know why they forget that you can bond during the daytime, too, but they’re used to their baby falling asleep in their arms while rocking or breastfeeding, and now they fall asleep on their own.  So I tell them to focus on bonding during the day.  Especially if the mother is breastfeeding, that’s the ultimate bonding experience, and it still happens several times throughout the day.

Once baby’s on a good nap routine, it actually helps you bond better because when baby’s awake, they’re more alert and happy.  Some babies are so exhausted that all they do is cry and fuss, so it’s nearly impossible to bond with a baby like that.  That’s when the parents tell me, oh, my baby’s colicky, and oftentimes I can tell just from the intake form alone that they’re not colicky; they’re overly tired.  And those babies just cry and cry and cry all day long.  So when babies do cry and fuss all the time from overtiredness, cumulatively, this creates a lot more crying than any sleep training does.  So this overly-tired baby’s crying all day.  A little bit of crying at night for sleep training eliminates it all.

I had a client once that her baby began to sleep in the crib all alone, and then she called me after the fifth or sixth day and was really sad because she missed having her baby in her bed.  It’s not my job to tell her she can’t have her baby in bed with her; I’m not going to judge her for feeling sad.  Of course, she’s used to having this bonding time with her baby in bed.  So I told her that the decision was hers, and she and her husband were now getting a full night’s rest; the daughter was sleeping soundly all night with no tears, but Mom was feeling sad.  So I told her, if she wanted her daughter back in bed with her, by all means she can do that.  But she right away said, no way.  No way; I can’t go back to the old way.  She knew she’d be back at square one where she was exhausted and angry, not able to function well at work, and really short with her husband.  So I suggested to make the weekends her bedtime snuggle-time in the morning.  Who doesn’t love a Saturday or Sunday morning bedtime snuggle?  So on days they didn’t have to get up for work or send her to daycare, they brought their daughter into bed with them, and she got to wake up and snuggle under the covers with them for an hour before they get up.  She can breastfeed, and it was this good balance where she felt like she could still have the whole weekend to bond with the baby and get a full night’s rest.

Another one is that I’ve heard that, oh, your baby’s going to feel abandoned.  I agree; if you’re leaving your baby in a locked room inside a crib for hours with no intervention, they’re going to feel abandoned.  It’s a horrible idea and a horrible thought, and again, if anyone’s telling you to do this, please don’t.  A good sleep consultant will come up with the plan that’s best for you.  So if they have only one solution to the sleep problem that they use with every client over and over, walk away.  There is no one right answer, or this would be easy.  People wouldn’t need my help; people wouldn’t need to read books.  So during my gentle sleep training, parents feel like they’re supported by me, and the baby is gently guided into sleep slowly at the parents’ pace so that nobody feels abandoned.  And again, I do have clients who are like, I need to do this now.  I have five days until I go back to work; I’m totally fine with some controlled crying.  Let’s get this done.  And I still think it’s gentle because I want baby to feel connected to parents still, and I don’t want the parents to feel like they’re abandoning their child.  So even with a little bit of crying, you can still make it gentle.

For breastfeeding, I hear all the time the concern that my milk supply is going to dry up.  And everyone is different.  When I have clients fill out my intake form, I find out if there are any breastfeeding issues.  Feeding is a huge part of the sleep consults.  If baby isn’t gaining, I wouldn’t even suggest sleep training; I would suggest a lactation consultant visit.  And there’s no way a baby can sleep longer stretches if their belly isn’t full.  It’s just impossible.  If there’s low milk supply, we can work with that, but while baby sleeps, mom can get up and pump or she can do a dream feed or both.  And if milk supply isn’t an issue, your body’s smart, and most women can go an eight-hour stretch without nursing.  But when baby wakes in the morning, they’ll both be very, very ready.  So yeah, I ask a lot of questions about feeding, especially if a baby is breastfed, and my number one goal is that they are getting enough calories during the day before we even attempt for longer stretches at night.

Formula-fed babies are a little bit different because I know exactly how much they’re getting.  They’re usually gaining a lot, and then if they’re older and eating solids, it still can be an issue.  I had one client say, “Oh, he just snacks and snacks and snacks, all day, all day, all day.”  And I said, okay, well, what’s he snacking on?  Come to find out, it was things like Cheerios and those puffs and just all empty calories.  So as soon as we changed it — I said get rid of all this processed food and think about healthy fruits and veggies that are appropriate for his age.  Add in some protein.  That’s all he needed.  He was snacking on bad things all day.

Kristin:  Those easy finger foods.

Alyssa:  Yeah.  And then the last one that I get told a lot is, well, my child is just not a good sleeper.  I’ve tried everything, and nothing is going to work.  And so many parents say this, or they say, he’s really strong-willed or she’s a fighter, and I don’t doubt that, but all babies want to sleep.  They do!  They want to sleep.  We just have to help them.  They don’t know how, and we need to show them and guide them.  So as parents, we do the best we can, but unfortunately, it often means we’ve created some really bad habits.  It’s really funny because a lot of moms will tell me, “I know I’m not supposed to do this, but this is what I do.”  And they’re in survival mode, for the most part.  If you’ve gone weeks or months without sleep, you’re literally doing what you need to do to get this baby to sleep right now so that you can get back to sleep quickest.  So usually we know that they’re bad habits, but it’s the easiest solution at the moment, so we continue to do it until we just can’t do it any longer, and they’re so exhausted and sleep-deprived they can’t take it anymore.

The best sleep plan is mutually agreeable between parent and child, and if we’re trying to force the child to do something that is against what their internal clock is saying, then yes, they will fight.  If we try to get them to nap when they’re not tired, we will think they’re strong-willed.  If they wake every day at 4:00 AM just ready to party, we will say that they aren’t good sleepers.  And all of these things are just products of poor sleep hygiene, not necessarily a problem with that child.  So a lot of the times, it’s a lot of educating on sleep.  I give a very extensive plan, and a lot of the plan is just understanding sleep; how it works, and what, based on their baby’s age, developmentally is going on.

Kristin:  Sure.  What about those parents that say their child doesn’t fall asleep unless they’re driving around the neighborhood in the car?

Alyssa:  Again, it’s just a sleep association, and after a certain age, it’s not even a healthy way to sleep.  They’re not getting into the deep, restful sleep, and it’s not restorative.  It’s like a constant REM sleep where you’re not getting any restorative sleep, and cat-napping is a really bad and a really common habit that little kids and babies get into, but again, they’re not getting restorative sleep.  So it’s teaching them about naps and how to allow their baby to soothe themselves to sleep, and it’s figuring out what works because, again, it can’t be the same for every baby.  Some babies love to suck, and every baby does because they suck on bottles and boobs and pacifiers, but some really love to suck, and that’s their soothing mechanism.  The second they find a hand, sleep is a dream.

Kristin:  And they probably did that in the womb, as well.

Alyssa:  Yes, many babies do.  You’ll see ultrasound pictures with little thumbs in their mouths, yeah.  The ones that like to be driven around, they might have an association with swinging or movement.  Especially as they begin to roll over and they can go on their sides or tummies, they might even roll themselves to sleep.  Some babies do that, and some — this one scares parents, but if they bump their heads against the crib or bang their hand or foot on the crib, but it’s soothing for them.

Kristin:  I’ve seen babies do that, yeah.

Alyssa:  So it’s letting parents know that they are soothing themselves to sleep.  Don’t be alarmed.  I mean, if they’re banging their head so hard that they’re getting bruised and stuff, that’s different, but a lot of the times, it’s just kind of a light thump-thump-thump.  It’s just understanding and watching; really watching your baby and understanding their cues and what they’re telling you.  It’s really important.

Kristin:  Fascinating!  Thanks for sharing!

Alyssa:  Sure!  If anyone has any other questions for me and wants to reach out, there is some info our website.  We’ve got some other podcasts and blogs about sleep.

 

Podcast Episode #58: Sleep Misconceptions Read More »

Ask the Doulas Podcast

Podcast Episode #57: Sleep Consultations

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Today we talk to Co-Owner of Gold Coast Doulas, Alyssa Veneklase, about sleep consultations.  She talks about some common misconceptions and why her consultations are different.  She says each sleep plan is unique and based on the individual family’s goals.  Who knew you could still breastfeed and co-sleep if you want, all while getting a full night’s rest?  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes or SoundCloud.

Kristin:  Welcome to Ask the Doulas with Gold Coast Doulas.  This is Kristin, co-owner, and I’m here with my business partner Alyssa to talk about sleep today.  We are gaining a lot of interest from clients and the general public about sleep, so if you could start out by letting us know what sleep training is, what it isn’t, and how you’re different from other sleep consultants.

Alyssa:  So there’s these misconceptions that we just don’t listen to what the parents need or want, and we just throw babies in a nursery, close the door, and let them cry for hours and say, oh, they’ll fall asleep eventually.  And that couldn’t be further from the truth.  It’s really like putting together a puzzle.  When a client calls me, we have a phone consultation or I meet them in their home and they fill out a really extensive intake form where I ask a ton of questions.  I want to know what kind of temperament the child has, whether they’re six weeks old, six months, or 18 months, because the temperament of that child will determine the different methods we try.  And then what kind of parenting style; are you a co-sleeper, breastfeeding, formula-fed; is baby in the crib?  So it’s like putting together a puzzle; let’s figure out what you’ve tried, what’s working, what’s not working, and honestly, most kids in three to five days figure it out and start sleeping really well.

Kristin:  That’s amazing!  I wish I would have had you when my kids were little.

Alyssa:  And it can be as gentle or as fast-paced as you want.

Kristin:  What’s the youngest age that you sleep train?  That’s a common question we get, and what is the oldest?

Alyssa:  I would say I’ve had clients as small as three weeks, but we don’t sleep train.  It’s more about talking about what to look for developmentally in the next few weeks.  Probably by six to eight weeks, they’ll start to notice some patterns in sleep.  They start producing their own melatonin and all that good stuff, so it’s more about talking about proper sleep hygiene, what the nursery should look like, what the environment should look like around naps and sleep, but then actual sleep training usually starts around 12 to 14 weeks, as long as the baby wasn’t premature and the baby’s gaining weight healthfully.

Kristin:  Do you go to the home, or is it a combination of phone and home?  How does a client choose what package they want?

Alyssa:  One or the other.  It could be based on price because for me to go to their home, it’s a little bit more.  Some parents want me to come to their space, meet the baby, see the nursery, see if there’s any glaring things that stand out.  I might have to go in and say that this room is too light; you need a noise machine; this crib is full of sheets and stuffed animals and blankets and stuff that is not considered safe.  Most of the time, it’s a phone consult.  That seems to work for most, especially if they’re out of the area.

Kristin:  As far as your top tips for potential clients or parents, what are some things you would say?  You mentioned darkening a room and so on.  What would be your top five things a parent could do?

Alyssa:  For basic sleep hygiene, it’s really not until that six- or eight-week mark that they start producing their own melatonin.  The production of melatonin only happens in the dark, but you also need that production of serotonin during the day.  So it’s this fluctuation of hormones throughout the day, and one needs the other.  So they also need sunlight.  So I’ve had clients where they just sit in a dark room.  They think to get their baby to sleep longer, it just needs to be dark all the time.  Well, they’re not allowing their baby the production of serotonin to be active and have this active playtime during the day, so then it’s harder for them to produce the melatonin at night.   So creating a sleep environment that’s dark helps.  Sound machines: I’ve had a lot of clients use sound machines, but they’re so soft and the baby can barely hear them.  It needs to be loud.  I tell them think vacuum cleaner.  If someone were in here right now with a vacuum cleaner, I would not hear anything going on outside this room.  And swaddling; that Moro reflex or the startle reflex that babies have can wake them up several times in the middle of the night, so a safe swaddle, and by that, I mean arms in, really tight around the arms, but really loose around the hips because of hip dysplasia.  That’s one thing that with the resurgence of swaddling babies, doctors have noticed that babies can have hip problems if their hips can’t move.  So in my newborn class, I demonstrate that; really tight around the arms, but here’s how baby’s legs and hips should still be able to move.

Kristin:  What about daytime?  Do you have tips for naps and getting better daytime sleep?

Alyssa:  Yeah, they go hand in hand, so people will say, oh, the baby sleeps fairly well at night, but is horrible during the day.  Well, the night isn’t going to get better until the daytime improves, and a lot of times, it’s just letting them know how long they should wait in between a sleep.  So sometimes for little, little babies, they might be trying to keep them up for two hours.  A ten-week old baby might not be able to stay awake for more than an hour, so they get overly tired, and then they fight sleep.  So letting parents know what a sleep pattern should look like based on their child’s age is sometimes really important.

Kristin:  That makes sense, and at Gold Coast, we work with a lot of families with twins and triplets.  How do you handle sleep training with multiples?

Alyssa:  It’s lovely when they seem to have the same temperament and want to be on the same schedule, and oftentimes I have to remind parents that these are two different humans with different personalities.  I’ve done twin consults where we just work with one because the kids’ temperaments are pretty much the same and they’re kind of already on the same schedule, but then some where they’re completely different.  When one’s up, the other one is sleeping and vice versa.  So then we kind of have to look at them as two separate being with two separate sleep plans.

Kristin:  Now, one misconception is that if you’re working with a postpartum doula, Gold Coast or elsewhere, you wouldn’t necessarily need sleep training or a sleep consultation.  So tell us why you need both.

Alyssa:  Working as a postpartum doula, it’s totally different.  I guess it’s different when I’m there because, since I’m also a sleep consultant, there are things I can do, like little tips and tricks I can give Mom and Dad too, but as a postpartum doula, you’re there to ensure the parents get a good night’s rest.  So I’m not there to help baby learn to sleep or to self-soothe.  The postpartum doula is there to help feed baby, change baby, and ensure that Mom and Dad get rest.  Sleep training isn’t usually done overnight.  I have an option for a package where I could do that, but usually it’s unnecessary.  My plans are so thorough, and they get constant support from me, so by the time nighttime rolls around, they know exactly what they need to do.

Kristin:  So you can still have a regular overnight postpartum doula, but just have them or the parents implement your plan you set up for them?

Alyssa:  Yeah, I’ve had clients either with a doula or for older children if they have nannies, and I have them either get on the phone call with us, or if they’re not available, they read through the whole plan.  And then I’ve even texted back and forth with the nannies, if they’re the one doing the majority of the sleep training during the day to get them on board.

Kristin:  So Alyssa, if you are working with a family who tends to breastfeed their baby to doze off, like that’s how they put them to sleep during the day as well as at night, how would you be able to let them still feel connected to the baby in that way and be attachment-focused but still create a stronger routine for the baby or toddler?

Alyssa:  So sometimes the feed-to-sleep habit or association doesn’t necessarily cause a problem, but that’s not common.  Usually, it becomes an association which includes several wake-ups in the night where the Mom has to get up and feed, so again, it’s just talking to – there’s 20 questions I would have to ask this mom before I could give her a plan, but it’s always about her goal.  I always ask: at the end of all this, what’s the end game?  What’s your goal for this?  And if it’s that she still wants to co-sleep and breastfeed but just can’t wake up six times every night, then I work out a plan specifically for her.  If it’s that they’ve been co-sleeping but didn’t mean to and it’s not working out the family and hurting the relationship with the partner, then the end goal is they want baby in their own crib, whether it’s in their room or in their own nursery.  That’s a whole different plan.

Kristin:  And obviously whether they’re co-sleeping or the baby is in the crib, it’s all about safe sleep and being able to recognize what is safe and what is unsafe.

Alyssa:  Yeah, and there are safe ways to co-sleep, and a crib is also very safe, but it can be unsafe if, say, a newborn is put on their tummy or if it’s filled with stuffed animals and blankets.  The first thing I do is rip all that stuff out of there.

Kristin:  Well, thank you for your time today, and if people are interested in reaching out to you, whether they live in West Michigan or elsewhere, how do they connect with you?

Alyssa:  I would say go to our website and just fill out the contact form and let me know you’re interested in sleep.  You can always call our phone number, too, at 616-294-0207 or email me at alyssa@goldcoastdoulas.com.  I’m always willing to chat.  A lot of parents will say, I just don’t think my baby’s ever going to sleep, and after hearing a few details about what their nights and days look like, it’s usually not as bad as they think, and a few easy fixes can get them on track.  So even for people who don’t live in the area, a phone consult with email and text support is what I give no matter what.

Kristin:  Thank you so much!

 

Podcast Episode #57: Sleep Consultations Read More »