January 27, 2026
Sleep Classes & Sleep Consulting: Podcast Episode #327
In this episode of Ask the Doulas, we sit down with Alyssa Veneklase, pediatric sleep consultant and co-host of Ask the Doulas, to break down the difference between taking an infant or toddler sleep class and working one-on-one with a sleep consultant.
We explore what families can expect from each option, who benefits most from a class versus personalized consulting, and how age, temperament, sleep challenges, and family goals all play a role in choosing the right level of support. Alyssa also shares common misconceptions about sleep training, when parents might want more hands-on guidance, and how education and individualized plans can work together to support better sleep for the whole family.
Whether you’re expecting, navigating the early months, or dealing with toddler sleep struggles, this episode will help you decide which sleep support option makes the most sense for your family.
This episode is sponsored by Cozy Earth. This Valentines day season, they are offering a BOGO Pajama deal you won’t see any other time of the year! Use our code GOLDCOASTBOGO from January 25 to February 8th, 2026, to get these pj’s for you and someone you love!
Hello! This is Kristin Revere, and I am joined today by our co-host, Alyssa Veneklase. And our topic is all about sleep for not only newborns, but toddlers. And we dive into the difference between hiring a sleep consultant with customized plans and taking a sleep class or a sleep course. For our listeners who want a bit more background on Alyssa, she is a certified sleep consultant. She is a newborn care specialist. She is an elite certified postpartum and infant care doula, a longtime educator, and an amazing mom and entrepreneur. She also works in the real estate field. Happy to have you back on, Alyssa!
Yeah! I will apologize in advance if there’s any strange noises. It’s a snow day here today! I know you’re dealing with the same thing. So hopefully my dog or my daughter and her friend don’t make any strange noises.
Well, our listeners are used to it. We’re moms!
I know, that’s the beauty of being a mom and on a mom podcast, right? They’ll understand. So I’m excited to talk about sleep! It’s been a minute, because like you said, I’m in real estate now, but I still do little sleep classes, and I think for the rest of my life, sleep will be at the core of my health and wellness routine. It’s the number one more important thing.
It honestly is, whether it’s infant sleep, teenage sleep, adult sleep. It is so essential. And yeah, you get into not only nighttime sleep habits for infants and toddlers, but the importance of napping. And a lot of our clients, whether it’s postpartum doula clients or the students, they may not think as much about daytime naps and the importance of napping in relation to sleep. We’ve certainly talked to people who have been educated maybe in other groups that just don’t have naps, and then they’ll be so tired, they’re going to sleep through the night – all of these strange theories. And you have an evidence-based class, based on research and information that is not slanted to, say, one position. Or when you are doing your consultations, for example, and you do a lot of workshops at some yoga studios in town – you’re going to use all of the different approaches that you learned in trainings versus, say, just cry it out. Where some sleep consultants might only use one method.
Yeah, that’s what make sleep so hard. I’ve had a lot of people call and say, well, I read this book. It worked for one kid, and it’s not working for the second. Or, I read this book and it’s nonsense. None of it makes any sense to me, and nothing works. So you need somebody – a sleep consultant who is well-versed in all of them. Right? I’ve read all the books. I’ve taken all the trainings. I’ve worked with all the families. And then you get to see. I love puzzles. I’m such a nerd. I love working on puzzles. Like, how do I fix this problem? What do I need to do to get to this goal? And when I did in-person sleep consults, that’s what it was. I would talk to the family. You know, figure out what in their own words the problem was, and in their own words, what their goal is. Because the problem is, you know, people will say, oh, how does your kid nap? Are they sleeping through the night? What does that even mean? Because everyone has a different version of what sleeping through the night means and what a good nap is. And I never want to talk into a home, or in a class, tell somebody, here’s your goal. Because I don’t know what your goal is. So for instance, if a mom called me and said, you know, I just can’t handle it. My kid is waking me up every hour throughout the night. Okay, well, let’s fix that. What is your goal? And maybe it’s like, I just want to get three hours a night. Or I just need to fix naps. Whatever their goal is, that’s the first little piece of my puzzle. It’s not what I think needs to happen. It’s not what a book says needs to happen. It’s how do we get this family to their end goal.
So that’s just – my approach is different because there’s not just one right way, and we’ve got to figure it out. It might be a combination of several different methods that work for this baby. But I always tell people, it’s not working if everyone in the family is not happy. And by that I mean – I’ve worked with families where the partner has been sleeping in a basement in a spare room sometimes on the floor because the child is in the bed with mom, and dad can’t sleep or dad’s been kicked out. And the mom is like, well, I’d like to sleep better, but how about doing X, Y, or Z? And I’m like, how does your partner feel about this? Yeah, he’s not too happy. Okay, so let’s get him involved. Let’s find out what a good solution for your partner is, and we’ve got to find something that works for everybody. And sometimes, too, mom or dad have a goal for their kid that just isn’t sustainable for their kid. We’ve got to look at your child’s personality, their temperament. What is their natural circadian rhythm telling us? When do they want to wake up? It might not be when you want them to wake up. So it’s just such a complex algorithm, almost, that just completely depends on the child and the family. You can’t just read a book and figure it out. Sure, you could get lucky. You could read a book, and the first book you read might work, and boom, you’re done. Awesome. But typically, that doesn’t happen. Because I know you get a lot of calls from people saying, oh, I did this class or the other. It didn’t work. I feel like I’m going out of my mind. Do you have a different solution for me?
All of the time. So they invested that money thinking it was going to be the solution, and it wasn’t. It was funny; at our holiday party, you brought a stack of books to our team to have them learn more about sleep, and you’re like, well, you can’t just take this one, because you need to know all of the approaches. So yeah, it was really educational. I mean, there are so many different methods, as you mentioned. And to have that and apply it – because like you said before, every child is different. Their rhythms for waking and sleeping would be different. And honestly, one thing that is unique about a customized sleep plan or even the feedback you get in your classes with those live calls and customizing what’s going on with them is the fact that sometimes there’s a medical condition where even if baby could sleep for longer stretches, the pediatrician may need them to wake. They could be low birth weight.
That’s a really good example, like a baby that’s been in the NICU. I’ve had parents say, oh, they’re 12, 14 weeks old now. I need them to be sleeping through the night. And I’ll ask them, what does your pediatrician say? Well, they need to be eating every two hours. Okay, well, then, that’s the most amount of sleep you’re going to get at night because this baby needs to be eating every two hours. And they’re like, oh, my gosh, even through the night? Yes, even through the night.
In my intake forms, I used to ask, is there any sort of medical information that I would need to know as a sleep consultant? Because I certainly don’t want to go against anything your doctor would say your baby needs. And I think I didn’t get to – you had asked about naps initially and I went off on a tangent. Typical of me and sleep. But naps – daytime naps drive nighttime sleep. And most parents don’t understand that. So if your kid naps really poorly during the day, more than likely, like 95% of the time – I’ve had some randoms that have really horrible naps but sleep fairly decent at night – most of the time, you see really poor overnight sleep. So we really work on daytime nap schedules first because you’re not going to get overnight sleep until you figure out the daytime, which can be the hardest. It can be really, really hard.
Yeah. I could have used you for Abby, that’s for sure. As a NICU baby, she did not like to nap, and it was hard to keep my place dark enough. I didn’t have the right shades. And so yeah, she was decent at night, but naptime was ridiculous. And then with my son, he was an easy napper and a great sleeper. They were just so different from each other.
Yeah, you never know. One kid to the next. And it’s really hard for those parents who had the really easy first baby, and then the second one comes along, and they’re like, oh, my god, what’s going on? Now they have a toddler and a newborn, and they can’t get the newborn to sleep. And maybe the newborn starts disrupting the toddler’s sleep, who used to sleep so well. And then you just see the downward spiral.
Right. And you have your sleep classes. It’s so unique in that it’s not just one plan that is one sleep method. You have three different sleep classes based on the ages and stages. One can be taken in pregnancy or the newborn phase. And then you have one for toddlers, and then one more in the infant state, which has advice and content that applies specifically to that phase. And some clients buy all three, or buy one, or get a sleep consultation just for an infant. Our sleep consults are also for up to age 5, so it can be customized. Oftentimes, I will get calls from people who are expecting, but their toddler is not sleeping and they want to get that under control before baby arrives. So there is an urgency and a deadline. And whether it’s a class or a consultation, that can be so helpful.
I laid out my classes that way because, again, a lot of parents don’t understand that sleep needs change. I think they assume, like, yeah, sure, of course, a toddler is going to sleep differently than a newborn, but there’s a lot of years in between there. And what’s happening? What’s happening to their bodies, their brains, their circadian rhythms? A lot changes from three months to nine months. And I would love it if everyone could take my zero to three month class while they’re pregnant because you go into this already kind of knowing what to expect and how to, from the very beginning, some really easy, healthy sleep habits you can start from day one. And it is not sleep training. It is not cry it out.
It’s just simple things like, maybe once a day, I’m going to have my newborn sleep in the crib instead of on me. Or maybe I’m going to, once my baby is a few weeks old, I’m going to pick a bedtime. It’s going to be 8:00 at night, 7:00 at night. I just go over some really simple, early things you can adapt to start healthy sleep habits ahead of time.
And then by the time you get to three to six months – oh, my gosh. This is an entirely different human that you’re dealing with. Totally different sleep needs, totally different sleep schedule. And I go over how that changes from three to six months and then nine to twelve months and then twelve months and beyond. Because it can be really confusing for parents who go, oh, well, I got this sleep schedule for my two month old, three month old. And why isn’t it working for my seven month old? Well, it’s got to be completely changed. And I kind of go over what nap is typically gone first and how do naps change and what can you notice? How do you know if your toddler doesn’t need a nap anymore? It’s got to kind of be broken down by age like that otherwise it doesn’t make sense for the three month old – the mom with a three month old is not going to understand what I’m talking about for a one year old. And I don’t want to make it confusing or give them wrong information.
And just when families think they have it down and things are perfect, then all of a sudden, a tooth pops. The teething, the sleep regressions.
That’s what’s so hard. You have these parents who are like, yes, we got it figured out! We’ve had the best month! And then yeah, baby will get sick. Or teething can be extremely disruptive; or not at all. Again, don’t let people scare you with that. But usually, it’s like illness or some developmental milestone that just throws a wrench in everything. So I really talk about consistency a lot. If you have a great sleep routine and it’s been working, and your baby gets sick and is having a really rough time sleeping at night, you still have to be really consistent with how you’re doing things. Obviously, stuff needs to change. My overall rule is, no matter what age we are – if you’re four months, four years, or 40 years – when you’re sick, you got to go to bed early. And there’s no problem putting your toddler to bed early, and they’re probably still going to sleep until the same amount of time in the morning because they’re sick. Their body needs that extra rest.
So, yeah, I just talk about how to tweak things based on what’s going on and things to watch for, things to be concerned about, things not to be concerned about. But there’s so many factors involved that thinking that you can just read one book or talk to someone who only uses one method is kind of setting yourself up for failure, unless you’re that one person who gets it right the first time.
Right. That’s why we get those desperate calls. They need help now, and nothing is working.
Well, and those people who have tried and tried and tried – they might be better off with an in-person sleep consult. You know, I could liken it to my real estate world. I’ve had clients who live out of state, and I might be showing them a house on a facetime call. I can give you the gist of what the house looks like, but unless you are here, in person, looking at this house, you really, really don’t know if you love it or what repairs need to be done. It’s totally different. So a sleep class will get you by, especially if you started from ground zero and you’ve built a really good foundation, if you know what healthy sleep habits are, you know how the nap schedule is going to change. But if you’re coming in and you’ve got an 18 month old that you’ve not done anything with, and you’re coming in like, I’m pregnant, and I’ve got to get this figured out before my baby is born – yeah, I think an in-person sleep consult probably is the easiest and best option because you’re going to really, really struggle starting later on in a kid’s life. The longer you wait, the harder it is. It’s not impossible, but it will be harder to get sleep under control.
Right, because if you haven’t had structure and consistency, which is so important – then to all of a sudden introduce it, your child is like, what?
They get really confused, you know? That’s why consistency is key. Even to this day – so my 12-year-old, right? We’ve got sassy little 12-year-olds. You know. Even if it’s something as simple as like, hey, can I have ice cream, and it’s 10:00 in the morning, and I’m like, no way, and I laugh – well, you let me that one time. And this is such a silly, simple example, but to little kids, especially toddlers – in their brains, they’re going, well, why can’t I come into bed tonight? You let me last night. It’s really confusing for them. They’re like, huh. So maybe if I beg more or cry more or fight more, they’ll just give up and let me do it. That’s why you have to be consistent. And I tell parents, it’s kind of an all or nothing thing, especially with toddlers, because they’re smart and they’re testing us. They’re not being manipulative. They’re not naughty. They’re just testing us. Kids do that for a long time. So you either have to decide yes or no and stick with it. If you’re happy having your three year old sleep with you, and everyone in that bed is happy, then you know what, like I said earlier, my goal for you is not to get your three year old out of your bed. It has to be your goal. So if you don’t mind that, then what else do you want to work on? Because if it’s not a problem for you, it’s not a problem for me.
Obviously, unsafe practices, I would talk to them about. But they as a family have to decide. But yeah, if you want your kid out of your bed and they’ve been sleeping in your bed for a long time – it’s a tough journey. You’re going to have to be really consistent, and everyone in the family is going to have to be like, yep, we’re on the same page. We’re going to do this together. Because you can’t be wishy washy. That kid will – they know instantly.
Yeah, if they think they’re in charge, it’s going to be a lot more challenging.
Yeah, it can be really hard.
Another struggle is if you have multiple caregivers that may not have the consistency. If you do have a customized sleep plan or you’re following your different ages and stages methods in Tired As A Mother or The Becoming Course – it can be challenging if there’s a nanny, if grandparents are caregivers, if there’s a babysitter, if that consistent plan is not followed, even a day can break it up and then cause struggle when you try to get back to the routine.
Yeah, I would tell people, if you’re going to do this and you’re all in, you really need to have a good week or two where you don’t have vacations planned; hopefully, you’re at home. You know, you don’t have any appointments. Because it’s really hard when they’re like, well, I really want to do this nap schedule. I’ve got a dentist appointment scheduled right in the middle of it and I need to bring my baby, or I have to go pick up our toddler from school, and I’d have to wake up my baby from his nap 50 minutes early. It gets really hard to try to start a new routine when you have all these other disruptions. And it’s not like you’d have to be that strict forever. It’s just while you’re setting the new routine, you have to be really consistent. And then, it’s easy to say, oh, we’re going to move naps a little bit, or we’ve got to shorten this one. So since this nap is shorter, I’m going to make the next nap a little longer, or we’re going to go to bed earlier or later. You can tweak that stuff, and I tell people how to tweak it. But when you’re in the initial stages, you really have to be consistent, or you’re putting in a lot of effort for no result.
Right. It’s comparable to potty training. You really have to be all in.
Just wait. Potty training is worse than sleep!
Oh, yeah. For sure.
And one thing I do want to note before I forget – if you are in any class or dealing with any sleep consultant who does the cry it out method – or I’ve even had clients who said, my pediatrician told me to do the cry it out method. Just walk away and find someone new. Not to say that your baby won’t cry or your child won’t cry, because that’s how they communicate and crying is normal. They’re expressing their emotions. It’s normal. But you should never, ever, ever close the door – cry it out means, I am going to leave this kid in this space by themselves to cry until they literally cry themselves to sleep. I’ve heard of babies cry until they puke. These babies and toddlers, they have different personalities. Some, sleep training, two days in, boom. They get it. They love it. It’s over. I’ve had some two weeks in – this kid is still fighting it. They are strong willed. And those are the tough ones. But you have to stay consistent, and a little bit of crying could be necessary. And by a little bit of crying, it could be a couple minutes. But never, ever, ever do you just let your kid cry in their bed or their crib on their own indefinitely. That’s just horrible advice from anybody. So don’t let anyone tell you that you just have to do cry it out. But also, it doesn’t mean that your baby will never cry. Our kids have emotions. They’re going to cry. A little bit of crying is normal and necessary sometimes. I’ve had parents of – like, the three month age is really good to start a routine, and these parents, a lot of times, they’re like, I just don’t let my baby cry at all. At all. If they’re in the crib, no way. They’re coming out immediately. And all it took was, like, I don’t know, 30 seconds, 60 seconds. Because what a lot of new parents think is crying is really just a baby, like, kind of soothing themselves to sleep, kind of – it’s kind of like a moaning cry. They just like to make noise. And if you just listen – I tell them, stop and listen for a little bit. See what happens. And then it goes away. And they’re like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? That’s all I had to do? If I would have done this a month ago…
So I really talk about learning how to communicate even with a little baby. Like, what are their cues? What are their signs? What do their cries sound like? For those of us with dogs, we know that they have different barks. If my dog is outside, I know his bark of, hey, let me in. I know his bark that, oh, the neighbor dog is out. I know his, I saw a squirrel bark. And I know his, hey, my leash is caught on a bush and you’ve got to come help me bark. But to anyone else, it’s just a dog barking.
And you learn those cues with your kid, with your baby. Oh, that’s a tired cry. That’s an angry cry. That’s probably a wet diaper. Oh, that’s a new one; maybe something is wrong. So really listening, communicating, and building a trust relationship from the beginning. So I talk a lot about that, too. How does your baby know that they can trust you to do what you’re going to say you do? You know, I’m going to put you to bed, and I’m going to come back and feed you. I’m going to come back and get you up in the morning. You know, all the way into toddlerhood and now as – you and I have teenagers. It’s really important to have a trust relationship with our kids.
Exactly. So true.
So for those people who think that if you don’t – you know, some people love sleeping with their kids. Some people don’t. Again, neither one – it’s not my goal; it’s yours. But to those parents who think that if you don’t sleep with your kid, you will not bond with them – my 12, almost 13 year old girl to this day would sleep with me if I let her. She never slept with me as a baby. I bonded with her during the day because we were both well rested. And that was how I as a mother bonded with my baby. Some mothers feel like they’re bonding while they’re sleeping with their kid. As long as it’s done safely, but we talk about that too. Whatever your choice is, if it’s done safely, it is the right choice for you. A working mom who works 50 hours a week – she cannot sleep with her baby. She needs to get up in the morning. She’s got to be ready for work. She has a different goal than maybe the mom who doesn’t work, who can sleep with her baby and nap with her baby. These are different goals for different moms, and no goal is better or worse than another.
Exactly.
Again, I’m on a sleep tangent. Sorry.
My tangent is that, yeah, for me, bonding was that I took a group infant massage class, and I learned all about soothing and bonding and touch and how parents can connect with baby in that way. I loved utilizing those techniques. Also, bathtime can be a bonding time. And of course, feeding. No matter how you feed, you are close to baby. It’s a bonding time. There are so many different ways that you can connect without having baby in your room. And of course, it is shown that rooming in with a bassinet is very helpful initially, and then eventually, transitioning to the nursery.
Yep. That’s the best way. Sleeping in the room, not necessarily in the bed. But I know that sleep is important to me, and to be the best mom I can be, I need my rest. And my daughter, too. She’s a whole different person if she doesn’t get sleep.
Especially in the teenage years. All the pressure in school and sports. They need their sleep.
Yep.
Any final tips for our listeners, Alyssa?
No, I just think if sleep is important to you and you’re in the early stages of newborn, or if you’re still pregnant, I would highly recommend the pregnancy and newborn sleep class, just to give you some foundation, like the basics of healthy sleep habits and what to expect in those first few months. And if you’re further along in this and you’re really struggling, and you’ve been months and sometimes even years without sleep, you can certainly take some classes to get you started, but I really think an in-person sleep consult is the best way to go.
That makes sense.
And there’s nothing to fear. The sleep consults, especially from Gold Coast – it’s not scary. And nobody’s going to tell you that you’ve got to lock your baby in a room and let them cry. It’s really about you as a family and your goals and what you’re going to do to achieve those goals. But you do as a parent have to be ready to be consistent.
Right. And with the sleep consultations, we do have some in-person options. If you have an overnight postpartum doula on your team, the doula can implement a sleep plan. But our listeners and clients, anywhere in the world – and you’ve had some clients and students from other countries take your classes or do sleep consultations with you – it can be a virtual consultation with a plan and phone and text support. And then with your class, again, it’s virtual and self-paced with calls to help answer questions, and certainly with your sleep module within the Becoming A Mother course, is also customized to the different stages and ages.
Yeah, I think that’s really important. You really need to know how to change based on your baby or child’s growing needs.
Exactly. Well, if you’re interested in learning more, you can find Alyssa’s Newborn Survival class and her Tired As A Mother classes, at Gold Coast Doulas. You can find us on social media. You can look up the Gold Coast Doulas YouTube page and find some of Alyssa’s sleep tips there. And there are many other episodes related to sleep on Ask The Doulas. And with The Becoming Course, we are offering a $50 discount. You can put in the code BECOMING50 to save on the course at any time that you find this podcast episode. It’s at www.thebecomingcourse.com. It’s also linked to the Gold Coast Doulas website. So if you struggle to find the website, you can always go to the www.goldcoastdoulas.com and find any of our classes and our sleep consulting services and our book and course.
I think we made it without any child disruptions, too, on a snow day.
We did it! And no dogs barking! Well, thank you so much, Alyssa, and we look forward to having you again!
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