May 2024

 Kristin Revere and Anne Wallen discuss how doulas can impact the birth and postnatal experience.  Anne also describes her doula training and education programs at MaternityWise International.   

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Anne Wallen today.  Anne is the director of MaternityWise International, and our conversation today is going to be all about doulas, since she trains so many doulas and also works as a doula herself.  Welcome, Anne!

Hi!  Thank you so much for having me!  I love it that we can talk birth and that I can be on your podcast.  What an honor!  Thank you so much.

And I am honored to have you on the show!  I’d like to get into a bit about your bio.  You’re a respected figure in women’s health with over 30 years of experience and a leading voice on global change in maternity care, particularly for those at greatest risk.  You’ve continued to educate and empower birth professionals in more than 20 countries, contribute to a variety of curriculums, and shape the future of maternal health through your impactful role as a speaker and mentor. 

So, yes, thank you for all of the years!  It’s amazing that you’re still working as a doula to really be able to meet the changing needs of doulas that you train.

Yeah, it’s so crazy.  Sometimes you get into this work and you realize, oh, I’ve definitely been called into this.  It’s what I’m meant to be doing.  It’s what I’m supposed to be doing, what I’m here for.  And I definitely feel that way.  Even though I’ve had a few other jobs along the way, they really even just added to my skill set as a doula and as a teacher.  But I feel really passionate about the fact that we, just as women, oftentimes we really crave that community, that support from one another.  And especially in American culture, you know, we’re really oftentimes far away from each other.  We’re far away from our family.  And when I say really far away, I don’t just mean maybe somebody in a different state, but we’re not living in this communal format anymore.  We don’t have the village where you can walk to your friend’s house, your mother-in-law’s house, your sister’s house, whatever.  Most of the time, we’re pretty far apart.  So just supporting one another looks different, and thank goodness for Facetime and phones and texts and everything, but it’s still not quite the same as being there in person and being able to give someone a hug and put your arm around them or cook them a meal or whatever it is that they need in that moment.  But supporting families – it’s so multifaceted.  It can be so complicated.  But it’s also really, really natural.  Like, we crave to do it for one another, and we definitely recognize when we’re in a vulnerable position like early motherhood, like pregnancy, and those early parenting days.  We definitely feel it.  We definitely feel the need for support and for help and all those beautiful things that a doula brings.  Not the judgment, not the unsolicited advice, but the actual support and that loving, nurturing – I even like to say we’re modeling.  We’re a role model to other family members of how to treat the family that’s growing or the mother or the baby, even.  How to interact with them, because we don’t always see healthy examples.

Exactly.  We don’t have the emotional ties that a partner or a parent does to our client.  We have a professional relationship, and yes, we get to know them and care for them, but we don’t have a vested interest, where I know with my family, they had their own personal experiences with, say, breastfeeding, and I don’t want to say agenda, but just how they felt things should go for me.  And when I wanted to make different decisions in parenting or the type of birth that I wanted, it was met with a bit of resistance.  Not all doulas are the same, but you mentioned judgment free, so just not going in with an agenda of, oh, my client needs to have an unmedicated birth or needs to do attachment parenting.  Whatever it might be; or feeding a particular way.

Yeah, and some of these can end up being such hot topics.  And also, science changes, and things that we used to do sometimes are not helpful or even might end up being detrimental now.  So even though grannies might have really great intentions, they can still give advice that can be harmful, not knowing that we now know better, so we should do better.  You’ll probably hear occasionally someone say, well, I was formula-fed and I turned out okay, or I’m a Cesarean baby, and I turned out okay.  And that’s not really helpful.  It’s very invalidating when you have a mom who’s wanting to do something different; when they’re wanting to breastfeed or they’re wanting to give birth naturally or even at home.  There’s a lot of not just judgment but so many opinions kind of flying around and almost hurt feelings when you don’t choose what they think you should choose.  So it can be really tricky to navigate.

Yes, and as you mentioned, things change.  With technology and all of the gadgets for feeding and sleep and really keeping up to date on recalls – it’s like a full time job for our postpartum doula team to know the safest options for our clients.  So grandparents are often caregivers now because we’re in a childcare crisis, and feeding is so different.  Safe sleep and again, products they might have used are not in use anymore.  And certainly car seat safety is a whole different thing.  I know when my parents had issues with navigating the modern car seats and understanding all of the changes in modern parenting compared to how they parented me.

Right.  And speaking of safety, a lot of times, we’re really motivated – our culture is very motivated by fear, and so we have this – just like a high priority on or a high value on safety, so if a person thinks, oh, well, this is the safest option, they’re going to go with that, versus when it comes to birth, there’s a lot of unknown.  There’s so much mystery still around it, even though we can kind of physiologically explain what happens, right, but each individual birth goes its own way and the hormone and chemical makeup of a person’s birth experience can be super unique to them.  So there’s a lot of unknowns.  There’s not a lot of ways to kind of predict or create a safety plan around how birth is going to go.  You just have to – I always say it’s 10% plan, 90% crap shoot, right?  So you’re just going to have to flow with it and trust that your body knows what it’s doing and trust that your body and your baby can accomplish a safe birth.  And a lot of times, fear and that mystery piece kind of get in the way of people being able to – and it might be grandmas; it could be partners; it could be friends, sisters, whoever’s kind of in the ear of the birthing person – installing this or instilling this idea that there’s danger around every corner and you’ve got to be overly conservative about really everything.  This is how we’re now in kind of this induction crisis in the United States.  We try to – we think, anyway – that managing – they call it active management – that managing the process is the only way to safely navigate the process.  Unfortunately, it’s quite the opposite.  Managing the process creates an unnatural scenario that ends up requiring more interventions because you’re creating complications that didn’t have to exist and then you’re managing those complications with more interventions, and you get into that snowball, which maybe if you just left it all alone in the beginning and let it happen, you wouldn’t have encountered all of these – I call them detours you have to take.  It’s like we know where we’re trying to get to, but sometimes medical intervention turns into a detour where now we’re going to have to deal with this little side road.  We’re going to get there eventually, but it might take us longer and it might be a little more of a bumpy ride.  And that’s the beauty of having a doula by your side is that if your doula is well trained, she’s going to know how to navigate those detours, and she’s going to know also how to help you avoid them altogether.  And that comes with preparation ahead of what I call “the big day,” the day that you’re in labor where it’s going to end with a baby in your arms.  We call that the big day, but there might be a lot of starts in the beginning.  Little bits of labor here and there before you actually get to the big day, but a doula who can help you prepare, get educated, know your options ahead of time – you’re going to feel less under pressure to make decisions on the big day.  You can feel a little bit more confident in your ability, also, when you have more preparation and you understand what’s going to happen to you and you understand what to expect at your chosen birth location.  Basically, there’s less surprises, even though birth is full of surprises.  There’s just less of them, or there’s a little more predictability to what’s about to happen and you can anticipate how to navigate, how things are changing and developing within the birth process and with less fear.  The more you know, the less you have to fear it, and I feel like fear is just such a big motivator to go ahead and do certain things that aren’t necessarily the right timing or even necessary at all.  But in our society, anyway, we’re so afraid.  We’re just really afraid of our own bodies, and that makes me sad.

And as you mentioned with preparation, a doula can certainly give resources, so evidence-based articles and information, to have conversations with your provider during pregnancy, create some of your preferences together at that prenatal visit, and certainly know options for comprehensive childbirth classes, whether they’re in or outside of the hospital, ranging from HypnoBirthing to Bradley gentle birth and Lamaze.  There are so many options to really understand, as you said, your body, what options, which choices you have for pain relief and interventions that may come up so it’s not all unknown the day you go into labor, so you understand different things that, in a nonemergent situation, you’re able to ask for.

Right, and we use the acronym BRAINS.  You’ve probably heard of that.  B stands for benefits.  What benefit does a particular intervention have for me?  What risks might be involved?  A stands for alternatives.  So are there any alternatives?  Is there any other way that we can kind of get to where we want to go without having to use that as a different option?  I is for intuition.  What is your gut telling you?  Do you have some red flags?  Do you not feel at peace?  Because if you don’t feel at peace, don’t go for it.  Wait until you’ve got enough information, you’ve got that peace before you go for it.  This is given that you would have enough time to make these kind of decisions and have these kinds of discussions.  In a situation that’s emergent, obviously, you’re not going to necessarily sift through all of the BRAINS scenario.  But then there’s also N.  What if you do nothing, or if you say not now?  I always tell my clients, don’t create a yes/no, black and white, all or nothing kind of scenario for yourself.  Just say not now because maybe in an hour or two, you’re going to change your mind and you’ll want to do this or that.  Or maybe in five hours, it’s going to be necessary to do this thing, whatever it is.  So just be open to it, and just say “not now.”  I’m not feeling like I should do that right now.

And then we always add S to the end, S being, give us some space.  Space to think about it; space to talk about it; space and time so that, again, there’s not a decision being made under pressure, right?  Because that feels like bullying, and we don’t want – there’s no place in this experience for bullying.  There shouldn’t be pressure or anyone feeling like they’re kind of coerced into making a decision.  Yeah, if there’s time to have this discussion and there’s not an emergency going on, then yeah, there’s no reason why we can’t have a little space to kind of think through this, in between contractions, because that’s another thing.  It’s like, okay, you kind of feel like I’m under the gun because there’s a contraction coming.  I’ve got to give a yes or no right now.  Well, actually, no, you don’t.  You can think it through after this contraction, and maybe after the next five contractions.  You can continue this conversation before you make a decision.  Asking for space.  These are things I teach my client families so that they understand in the moment, they don’t have to feel like – well, for example, if I haven’t prepared my client well enough ahead of time and I haven’t really gone over BRAINS with them for each specific scenario – let’s say it’s breaking their water or whatever.  If my client turns to me in labor and says, “What do I do, Anne?”  Then I feel like, wow, I did not prepare them enough.  Because they shouldn’t have to ask me what to do.

Unless they’re in the thick of it and they can’t recall anything you talked about and it’s all, like, out the window.

Sure, and when that happens, I do just turn it back onto them and say, how do you feel?  What do you feel like you need to do right now?  And reminding them that the first answer that your mind gives you when you ask yourself a question, that’s your intuition.  So if I say to myself, should I break my water right now?  I already know the answer before I finish even asking the question.  I already know what my mind, my body, my spirit is telling me, yes or no.  So giving them also that confidence and just the internal power – because we’ve kind of taken the power away from moms when we started giving birth in hospitals.  We kind of created this authority hierarchy, and mom’s at the bottom when she really should be at the top.  So just reminding her that this is her body, this is her journey, this is her decision, and giving her back her power to make a choice versus feeling like she’s just at the mercy of whoever’s in the room making these decisions for her, about her.  That’s inappropriate, right?  And in any other situation, we would never treat someone this way.  We wouldn’t walk down the street and say, oh, look, I think you should go into labor today.  I’m going to break your water.  We couldn’t do that.  It would never be appropriate.  It would never be appropriate in any other circumstances, so why, walking into a hospital, does it suddenly become appropriate for us to give up all of our rights and not have any say in the game plan?  Again, this is where preparation comes in because if you don’t have any kind of preparation, you’re going to feel like I have to lean on the expertise of these people because I don’t know anything.  That’s a big piece of it.

And there’s so much evidence that regardless of birth outcomes, having that continuous support from a doula, not only during labor itself, but throughout pregnancy, does increase satisfaction.  So as you had mentioned, Anne, it’s feeling like you are making informed decisions every step of the way.  Again, unless it’s an emergency, and instead of birth just happening to you and feeling like things are not in your control at all, then there’s a lot of remorse.  There can be so many feelings after the birth that are just challenging to navigate.

Well, and the definition of trauma is when something is happening to you and you’re so scared, you’re so terrified, and you feel helpless.  You feel out of control, whether it’s of your circumstances, of your own body, how you’re being treated.  And you’re put in this position where it’s a moment of almost terror, right?  And so we look at a lot of post-pregnancy, postnatal maternal mood disorders, and it’s like, you’ve got anxiety.  You’ve got depression.  You’ve got OCD.  And I can’t help but look at it and say, how much of this is related to how she was treated during birth, right?  So it there a sprinkling of PTSD in there that’s kind of root cause of all these other symptoms that we’re seeing?  I mean, if I’m anxious or if I’m OCD and I’m trying to control my environment and I’m getting some paranoia mixed in there or overly cautious and overly concerned and overly doing all the things to make sure my baby is safe and that I’m safe – that actually looks like a trauma response because if you’ve been traumatized, what do you do?  You try to control your environment.  You’re in protection survival mode.  And most people do – if you love your baby with all your being, they’re going to be kind of the object of your obsession at that point and protecting them and making sure everything’s okay with them, and you’re going to question every little thing that seems maybe out of the ordinary when it could, under another circumstance, if you haven’t had your confidence taken away from you, you’re going to look at your baby and just say, oh, we’re in the realm of normal, right?  But if you’re an anxious mom, you’re going to look at your baby and say, something’s wrong.  This might be in the realm of normal, but looks like we’re outside of the realm of normal and not really seeing things for what they are because the anxiety is the lens you’re seeing everything through.  And so, again, too, this is another way that doulas can help because processing trauma takes time.  It takes interaction.

I spoke at the Congress on Children in San Antonio several years back.  I don’t know, seven, eight years back.  And my whole project, basically, was about how touch is a solution for trauma.  So doing skin to skin with baby, breastfeeding, all these things because when mom has been traumatized, probably baby has also been traumatized to some degree.  And so getting them together can make such a huge difference and sends them leaps and bounds forward in their healing process.  You’ve probably heard the say, the body keeps the score.  There’s a great book by that same name.  And treating the body, doing somatic therapies with the mom, and this is, again, outside of – this is advanced training for doulas, but there’s things that we can do as postpartum doulas just to get moms some relief, some healing, kind of connect the loop for her so that she can stop spiraling downward and really utilize her network, her baby, her own self, work through her memories, process out the story.  Just by telling the story to her postpartum doula over and over again; it might seem redundant.  The doula might – if the doula didn’t have any kind of trauma training, the doula might think, oh, this is not normal.  But for someone who’s experienced trauma, telling that story over and over again and having someone listen.  I teach my doulas to use the five senses.  Listen; ask questions about the five senses.  What did you see?  What did you hear?  How did it feel?  Were there funny smells?  Did you throw up?  What were you drinking?  All these things, because the body is where the trauma was felt.  It’s where the trauma was processed.  And so using the five senses to kind of uncover what happened helps moms to put the pieces together in ways that her conscious mind might not be able to do, but her subconscious can start tapping into that.  With the five senses, you’re starting to tap into that subconscious mind.  You can start putting the pieces together a little bit better.  It feels less confusing.  She can continue to repeatedly tell the story, but it becomes a healing activity rather than being on that wheel where you’re spinning and spinning in the trauma.

And again, to have someone with some training to be able to listen with empathy and without judgment.  Not having to wait until that follow up postpartum visit to really feel like you’re being heard by a professional.  I find that pediatricians can be valuable because those visits are so frequent.  Asking questions and processing versus needing to wait for that six-week visit.

Right.  And sometimes even when you’re at the six-week visit, you’ve got five or ten minutes with that person.  And you don’t always – I mean, I’ve had six kids.  I’ve been doing this for 30 years.  As a fresh new mom, even with my sixth baby, I still was like, okay, what’s normal again?  You can’t really – it’s good to know yourself, but sometimes you can’t really recognize what’s going on without that outside perspective.  So somebody who really understands, looking at your behavior, looking at what you say, looking at how did your birth go, looking at how are you sleeping – are you sleeping?  Looking at all those pieces and kind of putting them together and saying, this is what I see.  Let me help you formulate some questions to ask your doctor.  Let me help you formulate a list of symptoms maybe to take to your doctor because otherwise, moms are in a cloud of sleep deprivation, and they’re just there to show up for their appointment.  They don’t always know what questions to ask or what things to bring up or what’s important, especially if it’s their first baby.  But having a doula to come in the home and get to know your family and really be working with them.  Sleep deprivation is a huge one, right, so just that alone can affect the mind and the ability to form sentences, let alone ask intelligent questions at the doctor’s office.  I mean, every aspect of pregnancy and early parenting.  My oldest is going to turn 31 and my youngest is 8.  I have women around me.  God bless having loads of women around me because I’m working in the birth world, so I’ve got all these caring, nurturing doula women around me all the time.  Without our tribe – gosh, I just don’t know how women do it when they’re all alone.

We need support, absolutely, and so obviously.  That’s why you were drawn to this work.  We are unfortunately running out of time, but I would love to hear any final tips you have for our listeners, and then of course, please share how they can connect with you.

Sure!  So MaternityWise, which is the company that I am the director for – we do maternity education.  So we do labor doula, postpartum doula, lactation.  We also have a program called EpiDoula, which is all about how to support someone who’s chosen to have an epidural and how to reduce their complications.  We also have a childbirth educator program.  We have a bunch of other programs.  HIPAA certification; we have classes on how to process insurance as doulas, just tons and tons of things.  Love it, right?  Anything to do with birth.  We even have an infant sleep class.  So our philosophy is really very much looking at the whole experience, so I love that we were able to kind of go through the whole experience today during this talk because that is so key to know the end from the beginning.  Whether you’re doing postpartum, it’s good to have birth education so that you can really understand what mom’s talking about and give her feedback about how her birth went because you will hear the story, right?

Right.  Even if you don’t want to be on call as a birth doula, still having the education, as you mentioned, is so important.

100%.  It’s just tools in your tool belt, right?  And then vice versa: as a labor doula, a lot of times people want to just get trained as a labor doula because they think that’s the most exciting part, but it doesn’t end there, and you will get asked questions postpartum.  You will have people trying to get your help with breastfeeding and stuff.  And if you’re not trained, if you don’t have that additional information, you could potentially give bad advice and it could be harmful, with completely good intentions, but it could end up sabotaging a mom’s breastfeeding relationship or whatever, right?  So having that full scope, the full spectrum of understanding and knowledge around birth and breastfeeding and postpartum – we just feel like that’s how you create better outcomes, bottom line.  You can’t take one piece of the pie and just say, this is good enough.  You’ve got to look at the entire experience and have knowledge and have wisdom to share throughout the whole experience.  So the way to get trained with MaternityWise and get certified – and our programs are approved by any state that has a state registry or a Medicaid program.  We are either already approved, or if they’re in process, we’re in process with them to get approved.  So we’re across the nation.  We’re around the world, too, but probably your listeners are mostly American, right?

Yes.  For the most part.

Yeah.  So our training, if you want to look more into it, is at MaternityWise.  We would love to hear from your audience.  But also, you have a book coming out, right?  Tell me about that.  I want to be able to make sure that we can help promote that, as well.

So it is called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby.  It comes out on Mother’s Day, May 12^th, so very soon.  And it’s basically what I wish I would have had for my own kids, and it’s based on our online Becoming A Mother course.  It’s about understanding all of the members of your birth and baby team, what options you have for providers, where to have your baby, and all of the different planning phases, not only prenatally, but putting as much importance in postnatal planning.  We get into everything from insurance to how to pay for your doula and baby registries and registering for services in addition to things, and how to communicate your needs with family and friends.  We try to cover all of it.  We have a chapter on sleep.  Alyssa, my co-author, is a sleep consultant.  We’re both newborn care specialists and postpartum doulas, and then I’m the birth doula and childbirth educator.  So I wrote the first half of the book, and she wrote the postpartum planning and feeding.  We have some experts in the book, as well, from a board-certified lactation consultant to a pediatrician to a perinatal mood disorder mental health therapist.  Since doulas are not medical, we wanted to bring in some medical experts, as well.

That’s smart.  I love that.

Well, thank you so much, Anne!  We’ll have to have you back on again!  I could talk to you forever.  You are such a wealth of information.

It was super fun.  I really love that we could do this.  I’m so excited about your book because everybody needs to get their hands on that.  Any mom that’s expecting, I’m sure, is going to really appreciate that knowledge to have in their own toolkit.  It’s awesome.

Exactly.  And I feel like my secondary audience for the book is also anyone who works with pregnant individuals and new parents.  They would also benefit in understanding all of the options to refer from understanding car seat safety technicians are a thing, to Webster certified chiropractors to pelvic floor physical therapists to, again, the different types of mental health therapists.

Amazing.  It really takes a team.  A client of mine that I was just speaking to the other day – she was just saying, she didn’t have all these pieces.  She’s got a Pilates person, a yoga person, a massage therapist, a chiropractor.  She’s got – in addition to her medical team, her OB, and then she’s also got a midwife because she’s delivering at a hospital that has midwives and OBs, so the team she’s with has both.  And of course, she’s got a doula, and she’s working on hiring a postpartum doula.  It’s so good to be able to see this.  And I know this is about accessibility, too.  Not everyone can afford to have all these supportive, coach-like people on their journey.  But if you can – and thank goodness, sometimes insurance will be covering it.  It’s just so important because, again, like we started out saying, families are very separated now, and even friends.  We don’t have that instant person, a lot of times, right there able to help us, and it’s good to have resources that we can reach out to whose eyes are looking at our situation with their own specialty in mind.  So they might have a different thing to encourage us to look into or research more or go get help with.  It’s really important.

Absolutely.  Well, thank you, Anne, and I hope to talk to you soon!  Take good care.

Yes, thank you!  You too!

IMPORTANT LINKS

MaternityWise International

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother course

Kristin Revere and Brianna Wilkerson of Mommy Me Time Community discuss the focus on prioritizing health and self-care during each season of motherhood.  Brianna has quick tips for both new and seasoned moms to get more intentional time and nourishment. 

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am thrilled to have my new friend, Brianna Wilkerson, on Ask the Doulas today.  Brianna is a holistic health and life coach.  She’s a brand partner with Savvy, podcast host, wife, mama, tea lover, Crossfitter.  You name it, she’s about it.  Welcome, Brianna!

Thank you so much for having me!

So your focus is all about helping moms.  You help ambitious women and moms prioritize their health and self-care so they can feel healthy, strong, and confident, no matter if they’re a first time mom or they’re a very seasoned mom, if their kids are older or if they’re in the new mom phase.  You support motherhood through all of the different changes, and your bio also tells me that you have a passion for women creating a sustainable income and growing into leaders that they were meant to be.  I love it!

Yeah, multipassionate always!  I think that the core of it in the last year or so is really seeing that moms is where I’m supposed to land, and if I can help a mom, I help a family and more.  So I’m excited to do that more.

That is so true.  That’s how I feel.  I feel like doulas can save marriages, and these support groups and communities that you create, your podcast, they give women the confidence to navigate the challenges and to have peers that are in the thick of it with you is so important, whether they’re in person or in a virtual community like those that you create.

Yeah, exactly.

So our topic today is simple healthy habits for the busy mom.  I’m excited to hear your thoughts and tips for our listeners.

Yeah, we can start wherever you would like.  I don’t think there is a mom that isn’t busy, or a woman that’s not busy, but I just think that with the busyness of life, there often comes a lot of roadblocks.  There are a lot of obstacles that make it challenging.  Not impossible, but challenging to prioritize our health and self-care, whatever that may mean for you.  That may mean nutrition.  That may mean exercise.  That may mean alone time.  It can mean multiple different things.  And those road blocks could be things such as time; not feeling like you have enough time.  It could be fatigue; you’re just tired.  It could be finances.  It could be lack of support.  It could be guilt; like, is it okay that I take away some time from my kid?  And onward and onward.  There’s just so many things that would make it hard for us to make time in the busyness of life.  But what I have found is that even when you spend five or ten minutes on those daily nonnegotiables that really fill your tank, that really take care of you, your cup is so much fuller, and you’re just able to show up more patiently, more powerfully, and be able to serve in whatever way you can, and you’re doing a lot better.  Before I had kids, I could do a lot of things.  I just felt like I had more time.

Oh, there’s so much more time!

Right?  And the reality is we have the same amount of time.  It’s just that our kids now are taking – maybe we didn’t realize this when we became parents, but we decided, like, when I become a mother, I am choosing, especially when they’re still in my household, to give my time to the growing, to the development, to the nurturing, to the love, to the memories with my kids.  And you quickly recognize, like, okay, well, that may mean that there’s less time to do other things.  So how do I then fit in those things that maybe I did at first that really filled me, nourished me?  And for me it’s really bite sized.  You’ve got to do it in bite size pieces, but yeah.

That’s beautiful, Brianna.  And I feel like there are different phases of motherhood.  Right now, my kids are in school all day, but I feel like I am their shuttle driver to sports events and activities and friend events, so it’s a different kind of busy than the toddler phase or if they are in preschool or daycare when you feel like you can’t get much done in those three hours, especially for entrepreneurs like ourselves when there’s so much on the to-do list.

Exactly.  And I think we’re just told – we just start to believe it’s a mindset thing, too.  It’s either all or nothing.  Either I go to the gym for an hour or I don’t go at all, or either I eat “perfectly” or I don’t eat healthy at all, when in reality, all successful people in any area of life would tell you that it’s all about those small, simple steps you take daily that compound over time that help you get healthier, that help you get fitter, that help you win an Olympic medal, for example.  But it’s not sexy to do those things all the time and feel like it matters or feel like it’s getting you places, but it really does make a difference, and studies have shown that you can do ten minutes of a workout and honestly it increases your heartrate and boosts your metabolism a lot more than an hour, depending on the type of workout you’re doing.  So a lot can be done in five or ten minutes.

Absolutely.  And even stretching can be so beneficial.  If you have a dog, take your dog for a walk.  You can walk or run with your children.  There are so many things that you can do to bond with your family.  I mean, even if you have a partner, just walking with your partner can make a nice way to get moving and active, burn some calories, but also clear your mind.  So a good walk does wonders.

It really does.

Again, talk about the different types of self-care.  For me, I like to get up a bit early, and really, how I start the day sets the tone for the day.  And sometimes, you just need to sleep in and you don’t need to get ahead of when your kids wake and all of the work activities that need to be done, so it can look different every day, but I try to get up before my family and set some time, take my dog out, and move my body a little bit, get some water, and then start the wake up process and looking at my emails, but I try to avoid technology for at least a short span of time to meditate, or for those of you that use prayer, like praying, and starting some rituals for your life.  But for me, how you start and end a day can really set the tone.

Yeah, I think it’s figuring out – because there are so many different things that you could do and focus on, but the reality is – it’s not that you can’t do all of those eventually, but you shouldn’t start out trying to do all of those.  What are your three to five daily nonnegotiables that you need to do each day to feel your best?  Is it movement?  Is it nutrition?  Is it drinking enough water?  Is it that five to ten minutes before your kids wake up to have that centering time?  Is it cutting off technology before you go to bed at a certain time?  And there’s no right or wrong here, and you may not even know what you need.  That’s the importance of definitely talking with someone, but also just start trying to do something so that you can see if it’s really impacting you and really nourishing in the way you need.  I highly recommend always considering four to five main areas.  You do want to consider your nutrition.  What are you putting in your body?  Ultimately, the word nutrition is Latin for nourish.  It’s just nourishing; we’re nourishing our body, giving it the care that it needs.  And our body needs certain things.  It needs certain micronutrients.  It needs certain macronutrients to thrive.  Just start somewhere.  When it comes to nutrition, I really suggest people crowd out by adding in.  If you want to eat less of some other type of food – not that you say you can’t eat it, but you just want to eat less of it because it may not be nourishing you the way you want – add in something else.  Maybe you want to eat less rice at a dinner, for example.  So you’re like, okay, one way is to add in broccoli, because I want to add that in more.  And then maybe you try that at one meal a day or one meal a couple times a week, and then you add it in every dinner.  Or maybe you add in broccoli or a vegetable at two meals a day, then three, and just over time, that slow process will become like second nature for you to have a vegetable at a meal.  And vegetables will feel you way quicker than rice, for example.  I love a good rice.  We’re not shaming rice over here.  But yes, it’s nutrition, and we can dive deeper into that, but I really think for most of us, we know at least the basics, that certain foods are more nourishing than others.  So if you want to incorporate more of that, it’s really just picking one and adding in slowly.

Now, with movement, again, there are so many types of exercise programs and fitness programs, and no one fits all.  It really depends on what you love, what you enjoy.  There’s still a way to get cardio, flexibility, stamina, endurance, strength training, all of those, the general physical skills, in the types of exercises that you’re doing.  But you might have to be more intentional if you’re doing it on your own, or maybe you join a certain type of program that does it for you.  Then it’s like, well, I don’t have to think about it.  But what I think is key with that is just commit to moving every day regularly.  And I say like, okay, maybe you start with just moving more like tracking your steps or just choosing to park a little further, or maybe you’re like, no, I want actually to do a workout because it challenges me in a certain way and releases endorphins and all that.  So maybe you start with ten minutes a day, which, again, does not seem like a lot, but let me tell you, I’ve gotten very fit doing ten minutes a day just consistently.  You know, there’s so many different things you can do for that, but I just think ten minutes of walking a day does wonders for your body.  So don’t negate walking.  Maybe you used to run.  For me, I went from walking to running, and now I’m like, I just love a good walk.  I love a good walk.  I don’t want to do long distance running right now.  Now I do a lot of walks with the kids in tow.  A lot of my workouts are with the kids in the stroller.

It’s that life stage.

Exactly.  And again, whatever stage you’re in – you know, before having kids, I served a lot of women who were grandmas.  At that stage, they’re like, okay, I can finally take care of me.  My kids are out of the house.  They’re a little bit older.  And I say, well, the challenges are still the same.  You’re still busy.  It’s not like your busyness decreases.  Maybe in a certain way, but you can still be on your toes, being involved in certain things, and so you still need to practice some of these things.

So yeah, nutrition, movement, and I would say stress and sleep are too ignored.  Very ignored areas, because we often think we can just survive without consistent sleep, quality sleep.  And we don’t actually realize how much stress we’re under in this day and age.  Talking about the phone: you can be connected.  You can Google anything.  Before, you had to go to a library to find out something.  Now you can find it out right then and there.  You can order everything online.  You can find out the news.  Most of us don’t even watch the actual news anymore.  We just check Instagram.

Just look at the little summary clips on your feed, and you’re good.

Right?  And all that to say none of it is bad, but we’re so stimulated, and it’s just so easy for us to be more mentally stressed, and that really impacts your body.  It impacts your hormones, and it impacts your health in various ways.  On the other side of that, though, is that again, we’re so connected.  Even back in my parents’ or grandparents’ generation, they didn’t really have electricity in the same way.  When it was dark, it was dark.  You stopped doing things at a certain time.  But us, we have light.  We have unlimited internet access.  We can just be doing things all day, every day.  But we need to rest.  We need that good quality sleep to restore.  So really creating a good sleep time routine there and really figuring out tools to manage your stress.

It’s so important, and many of our listeners are either pregnant or pre-conception or in that early parenting phase, so sleep is vital.  With a newborn, you get so many wakeups, so trying to prioritize sleep or get support from a postpartum doula who focuses on overnights, for example.  And in pregnancy with discomforts, sleep can be challenging, as well. 

Yes.  Even with that, my eldest is now only four and just sleeping better through the night.  She still goes to bed a little later than I want, than what I would like.  So I understand.  I’m not trying to be one of those people who are like, oh, my gosh, just sleep.  I understand different kids and different lives.  Maybe you work at night or all these different things.  But I do think there are things within our control that we don’t think are in our control.  So, like, I know that sometimes my daughter goes to bed late, but I feel like I haven’t had my time, so I will stay up later than probably I actually want to in order to get whatever me time that is.  And really, that’s actually  hindering me because she’s probably still going to wake up early, or my son will.  So I just think it’s like, what can we do?  What can we actually do?  And then the fifth area is like your mindset.  That goes with the what can we do.  Just really seeing that you do have control over some things when it comes to your health.  It may feel like there’s a lot of barriers.  There’s a lot of road blocks.  But when you start to believe that things can change, whether they’re slow – I actually think slow is always better because it’s more sustainable – you start to see that, like, okay, it doesn’t have to just be this way.  Or maybe it won’t always be this way forever.  And so you just have more a positive attitude which makes you more hopeful and therefore more likely to take action around taking care of yourself.

Yes.  I love it.  Mindset is so important.  We focus on mindset in pregnancy, and as an athlete, you understand this, that runners visualize a race in advance, and a lot of athletes, swimmers, do so much mental as well as physical preparation.  In our classes, whether it’s HypnoBirthing or the Comfort Measures for Labor classes that I teach, we talk about visualization and mental preparation as well as how to feed your body, move your body, and how to best prepare for birth in a way that could be compared to preparing for a marathon.  You want to rest and nourish yourself in the very early stages of labor, so we talk about the importance of sleep and rest and not knowing how long the labor will be but needing that strength for the pushing phase.  For a race, you’ve got to make it to that finish line, so don’t beat everyone in the first mile.  You want to be able to pace yourself and know your limits and know that your mind can take you far when your body is tired.

It’s so interesting.  I had a really good friend who’s on her sixth pregnancy now, but I just remembered she would tell me, like – yeah, just the importance of the mindset, of visualization, even in pregnancy.  And I remember with my second I tried to practice that more.  The pain was just so bad.  I wanted to not think; not relax.  I wanted to clench up, and just having to visualize and tell myself and talk myself through it – it made a difference.

It does make a difference!  But your body does want to clench when you are in discomfort with contractions of labor or even just pregnancy aches and pains, and you just need to open up and relax and not resist because the more you’re clenching and stressed, the more uncomfortable you’re going to be.  I love that your friend gave that advice and that it worked for you.

It really did help.

So you likely focus on ways to reduce the stress levels and cortisol levels.  How do you talk to your community, whether it’s using breath work or mindset?  I’m interested in how you address that.

I think it does depend.  I mean, the power of breathing is just like when we’re going through birth.  They’re like, just breathe, and I’m like, I don’t want to breathe.  I just want to scream.  But it does really calm that fight or flight response that your body is feeling, and it really brings you to a more calm state to do whatever you need to do.  So don’t underestimate the power of just breathing in and breathing out, or breathing in and holding for a bit and breathing out.  You can do the box four or the count to four method.  And another thing I like to do is a process – I learned this one time through a program I did where you write out your stressors and really figure out which ones you can eliminate, which ones you can reduce, and which ones you just have to cope with.  Because the reality is, many of us think we have to just cope with all of our stressors, but sometimes you can actually eliminate it or reduce it.  For example, kids are stressful, especially when they’re young.  I mean, maybe all the years, right, but – so I have to cope with that, but are there ways I could also reduce certain things or eliminate the need where I feel like I need to do everything in the house?  You know what I mean?  Is there something that I could do?  Yeah, I could ask for help, or I could hire – or maybe I find little tips and tricks to keep things less likely to get dirty.  I don’t know.  Again, it goes back to the mindset of what can I actually control?  And when you start to see that – I mean, you write out your stressors, and then you just go and label them.  Eliminate, reduce.  Then you’re like, okay, well, this is what I can control.  This is what I can’t.  So how I can get help with some of that?  And I think as you’re pregnant, you’re stressed about so many things.  Like, is my baby going to take this pacifier or am I going to have to buy all the brands?  How is the birth going to go?  And there’s so much within the birthing and the whole process that we actually can’t control.  I’m not saying you can’t be concerned about it, but really asking yourself, what is my role here and when do I just need to let go and realize that I don’t have control over some of those things.

Exactly, yes.  And it’s a great way to approach parenting.  I feel like the unpredictability of labor and birth leads well into the unknowns in early parenting, and even parenting teenagers.  It’s not predictable.  There’s not a manual or formula.  So we’ve got to use our instincts and our resources to make informed decisions.

Right.  Exactly.

I would love to have you fill our listeners in more about your community.  Mommy Me Team Coach?

Yeah, so I’ve gone through so many names of my coaching work throughout the years, but I realized that ultimately, there is so much power in mom having her time.  Like, whatever that is.  It may mean time alone.  It may mean time to just invest in herself.  It may mean time to do a hobby or a side hustle that she loves.  I am about advocating for moms to take care of themselves.  I just think we’re such caregivers, and we give so much.  And sometimes we can even be a little, like – I don’t know the right words.  Resentful, that people aren’t doing that for us.  But it comes to a point where when we raise our kids, we want them to be advocates for themselves.  We want them to stand up for what they want, and we teach them to be independent young adults.  And it’s the same thing with us.  We don’t stop doing that.  We still need to advocated for the things we need and want and speak up about it.  That’s what Mommy Me Time Coach is all about.  It’s helping women really prioritize their health and self-care in small, simple ways.  And so I do a weekly – right now, my official podcast is on hold, but I do a live Instagram show weekly.  I have multiple summits that I do a year just helping moms in different seasons.  I have a Facebook community, and then I have a membership to help busy moms take care of their health and their self-care, too.  So that’s kind of the focus right now.

So many different options!  Depending on the budget and the time, checking out your Instagram and some of your summits, and then when budget allows, investing in your very valuable membership community.  And are there different levels of membership?  Explain that for our listeners.

Yeah, so I’ve done one on one coaching throughout most of my eight year of coaching, and I love it.  But just in this season, I was just thinking about myself and busy moms, and I’m like, you know what, I still think that’s valuable, but I do think there’s power in a community and power in working over time, and I think that’s what a membership allows.  You don’t feel the pressure to do everything because you’re going to be here however long you need to be here.  So no, right now, it’s only one level you join.  It’s $30 a month for that, and you’ll get a monthly theme, masterclass training, resources, check-ins, coaching call, a community.  And then of course – like, some women do it and they’re like, okay, but I actually do want more one on one support, and that’s an option, too.  Right now, it’s mainly like, if you want to join the membership, it’s group formatted, but I do a limited amount of one on one spots, as well.

Excellent.  And how can our listeners connect with you, whether it’s social or your website?

I’m really on Instagram, almost all the time.  Not all the time; it’s just my main place.  So Instagram, @mommymetimecoach.  You can also go to Mommy Me Time Community on Facebook.  Those are my two social hangouts.  And if you want to join my mailing list, I send one or two emails a week, just if I’m doing events.  You can grab my free Healthy Habits Challenge for Moms, and then you’ll be on the mailing list, and that way you’ll also get some tips on some of the things we talked about, as well.

And for the LinkedIn lovers, you’re also there?

Oh, I’m on LinkedIn, too.  I don’t do as much on LinkedIn.  I need to.  But I am on LinkedIn, and I will get a message if you send it to me there.

Excellent.  People will be able to connect with you and get your download as well.  Do you have a final tip for our listeners before we say farewell?

Yeah, I would just say the biggest thing is to give yourself grace during this time period.  I think pregnancy in itself, your body goes through so many changes, but you still have to live life and do different things, and maybe you have other kids, so give yourself grace, even with the things I talked about.  And then postpartum, I mean, with my son, he was the second, and it really took me a while to get into a flow of some of the very things I’m talking about.  He’s nearly two, and I just feel like I can do some of this stuff, you know?  But I made sure to still move when he was young, whether it was two times a week walking versus like, now I do more than that.  Give grace to really trust your intuition of what you need, but also don’t wait.  Try to take a small step at a time.

Perfect tip.  Thank you so much, Brianna, and I can’t wait to connect again.

Thank you so much!

IMPORTANT LINKS

Mommy Me Time

Brianna’s Facebook and Instagram

FREE Healthy Habits for Moms

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother course

Kristin Revere and Stephanie Middleburg chat about the importance of nourishing yourself and your baby during pregnancy and the postnatal phase.  Stephanie is the author of “The Big Book of Pregnancy Nutrition” and founder of Middleburg Nutrition.

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Stephanie Middleburg today.  Stephanie is a registered dietician, author, and founder of Middleburg Nutrition.  Welcome, Stephanie!

Hi!  Thanks for having me!

So happy to have you here!  Our primary topic today is all about prenatal nutrition. 

Yes, I have – I love this topic.  I’ve always loved this.  First and foremost, I’m also a mom of two.  I have an eight-year-old little boy and an almost two-year-old little girl.  I’ve focused on this a ton in my practice.  It’s become a specialty, and I have a book coming out April 30^th, called The Big Book of Pregnancy Nutrition.

Amazing!  And you also have two other books, so you seem like you’re very busy between being an author of multiple books and your own practice as a dietician.  Being a mom itself is a busy job.  Very impressive!

I mean, the kids have been the inspiration for my books, that’s for sure.  So my first book was The Big Book of Organic Baby Food, followed by The Big Book of Organic Toddler Food, and now this pregnancy book is essentially a prequel to the others.  And I think being in private practice keeps me so grounded and connected to what people are actually going through and their questions.  Literally while I was writing The Big Book of Pregnancy Nutrition, I was taking notes as to what my clients were saying.  I think the power of these books is that you can have all the information, but unless it’s communicated in a way that people can be receptive to and understand, those words might not be as effective.  I really try to take a realistic approach in my books and my work with my clients, which is a lot of fun.

That makes so much sense, and obviously, the foundation of everything is that prenatal phase and focusing on nourishing yourself.  I know there can be a lot of misinformation about following cravings and it’s an excuse to eat whatever you want, but it is so important to focus on proper nutrition, not only for baby, but for yourself.

It’s such an interesting time with my work with my clients because I think women come in this stage with such different mindsets.  I work with so many women who are really fearful and anxious about the food that they consume from a food safety perspective and making sure they’re getting all the nutrients, and then there’s other women who are like, this is my time to eat what I want.  I’m going to lean into these cravings.  But there is still so much confusion out there and so many questions, and it is such an important stage that can really set the tone for both how mom is feeling in her pregnancy and postpartum, as well, which is why I really like to emphasize in this book that it’s food for mama and for baby.  It really does start the family thinking about eating quite differently, and I just know from in my pregnancies, even as a practitioner, there were a lot of things that I acted reactively to, being like, why didn’t I know this?  Why didn’t anybody tell me this, or why didn’t I research this more?  And I see that in my clients, too.  A lot of the book was to really provide some information along the way at various stages, whether or not you make changes, but at least to be aware of things to talk to your doctors or your care team about.  I think that’s so important.  I essentially go through the book as I would with someone that would come into my office.  Essentially, the first thing I’m so passionate about is getting bloodwork done for pregnant women.  Not everyone has a baseline of where they are at the start of pregnancy, and I feel like that’s such a missed opportunity, especially as it relates to whatever your background is.  If you’ve been on the birth control pill for a long time, that can deplete a lot of nutrients like B6 and B12 and vitamin D and C and magnesium and selenium if you’re vegan or vegetarian.  You want to know where your vitamin D levels are because you might need more than what’s in your prenatal.  Iron, anemia.  50% of women essentially are anemic in their pregnancy, and this usually happens in the second or third trimester, but it’s important to know what your base is to be able to – if this is something, like, should you take an iron supplement in your prenatal; should you take one separately.  B12; 38% of women are deficient in it, and they really don’t realize it.  Those are really things, when you feel the fatigue – I mean, you’re going to be tired in pregnancy regardless, but it could have to do with some nutritional deficiencies.  And one other thing I’m passionate about is blood sugar, hemoglobin A1C.  So that essentially measures your blood sugar over a two to three month span, and in pregnancy, most women, unless you’re considered an older mom, your blood sugar doesn’t get tested.  You don’t go through the blood glucose screening test until 24 to 28 weeks.  Again, if you’re older, you might do it at week 16.  That’s far along in your pregnancy to find out that you might have gestational diabetes.  We really are looking that studies really show that at the start of pregnancy, if your levels are 5.7 or above, chances are you probably will have gestational diabetes, so why not work on some blood sugar control earlier rather than wait until the middle of your pregnancy?  So there’s just some preventative things that I’m just very passionate about women talking to their doctors about just to get more personal information for their bodies to see what’s going on.

Very helpful.  And the book is such a great way for you to impact more women.  I mean, living in Brooklyn, you can only see so many people in your private practice, so having this guide for people all over the world to better care for themselves and their baby or babies is so important.

Yeah, I really hope so, and that’s really the goal.  It was amazing to me how the Big Book of Organic Baby Food really became a Bible to so many women.  I am in Brooklyn, but to see how far reaching it was and how helpful it was for so many women definitely helped inspire this book for pregnancy because it is such a confusing time.  These are areas where you need a lot of handholding, right, in certain parts, and you need a lot of guidance.  Somethings are black and white, but some things, there’s gray area.  I think as it relates to even food safety, a lot of women get hung up on it and over-Google.  That’s where they get their information from.  They might not be getting it from their care team, either.  Prenatal stuff is definitely one of those where no one really knows what to do there.  You’re told to get a prenatal, and I think unless you have a relative or a friend, there’s no guidance on what specific prenatal you should get or what you should be looking for for yourself.  So I have a big chart there, and a section on supplementing your supplements.  Again, some women need additional nutrients in addition to just what their prenatal is providing them.

That makes perfect sense.  I remember having a friend tell me about the whole food prenatals versus the standard generic ones, and it made such a difference in my nausea and just overall energy.

100%.  And sometimes it takes a little bit to find the right combination for you, and that’s okay.  You can switch your prenatal in the combination until you find the best fit for you.  The first trimester is really hard because 75% of women are going to be nauseous, and there are different forms of prenatals you can take.  There are now some powders you can do.  There are some liquids.  Gummies, which aren’t my favorite; you’re just not going to get enough of what you need as a supplement, but better than nothing, right?  Take a gummy in the first trimester until you start feeling better.  But really, yeah, unless you know, it’s a really hard area and knowing what to look for.  Not everyone will need iron in their prenatal but might need to take it separately because it can lead to some digestive issues.  Not all prenatals have choline in it.  A lot of prenatals just have, like, 600 to 800 IUs of vitamin D where you might need 4000 IUs of vitamin D.  It might not have the right form.  You might need more magnesium citrate, for example, if you’re finding you’re constipated.  Not to make it complicated, but these are all things to look out for that can be immensely helpful.  I’m a big proponent of probiotics, especially later on in pregnancy, because there’s really great research that shows that it can help prevent chronic conditions in kids, like eczema, food allergies, things of that nature, especially if you’re going to have a C-section or for any reason you were put on antibiotics, even during your pregnancy or post, that your baby was put on any sort of antibiotics.  I think it’s helpful to take a probiotic in your third trimester and then probably postpartum.

That makes complete sense.  So you mentioned earlier, Stephanie, that there were some nutrition tips that you wish you would have known that you shared in the book. 

Yes!

I would love to hear more about that.

The supplements was a big one for me.  I remember going to the doctor’s office so excited we’re going to have this conversation, and he was like, yeah, take a prenatal.  And I was like, do I need vitamin D?  He’s like, yeah, could do.  Maybe, maybe not, but take it.  I remember the conversation was so meh.  And that’s one of the reasons why it inspired me to go into detail about these prenatals and again to have the conversation and bring it to your doctor or ask them to test your levels so you can see if you do need more of certain things.  Another part was during the blood glucose screening test, my nurses had told me – this is, again, 24 to 28 weeks, your first time to test if you might have gestational diabetes, and you take, like, 50 grams of sugar.  I don’t know if you remember this.  And then they test your glucose, your reaction to it.  If you pass, great.  If you fail, then you have to go on to a three-hour glucose screening test, which is way less fun.  You want to try to avoid it if you can, but it doesn’t mean that you have gestational diabetes.  But anyway, it is not a fasting test, and time and time again with me, I was told it was, and so many of my clients were told it was, which I think sets you up for a disadvantage.  If you think about it, if you’re having so much sugar on an empty stomach, you’re going to spike more than if you are consuming this sugar on a breakfast, or after a meal that is really rich in protein and fat, which slows down the absorption of sugar.  That was one area that I was like, what?  Why?  Why did I get this misinformation?  Why did I not know this?  And now even with the glucose screening test, it depends on how you feel about certain things.  First of all, the test is gross.

It is gross.

It tastes like an off-brand Gatorade with a maple syrup texture.  It’s not fun.  And thank goodness, we’re at a time where there’s so much research and people are paying attention to this prenatal experience.  There is a company now that has a dye-free option called the Fresh Test, which I wish I knew about it when I had my pregnancies.  It also tastes better.  It’s one of those things that you can purchase and talk to your doctor.  Just share with them if you have a preference for taking this.  And it’s more of a lemon, sour-tasting versus some of those other ones that are orangey or raspberry and just don’t taste very good.  Lemon is a better taste than others.  But have a strong breakfast before you go; again, rich in protein and fat.  So, say, like, eggs and avocado or full fat Greek yogurt with nuts in it, something along those lines.  I feel like that gives you a fighting chance so you have more success at that point.

Another prime example that I was not aware about was when I was induced, which I have feelings about now, of course.  This was in my first pregnancy.  I didn’t know that doctors don’t allow you to eat once you start the process, and I would have been more prepared.  You’re essentially going through labor – your body is being put through a major physical test.  You’re running a marathon.  To subside on Jello…

It does not work.

It does not work, and I think it’s something you can have a conversation with your doctor.  I mean, they’re concerned about aspiration, but it’s really – I think just to have the conversation.  I do believe most people can have more foods.  I mean, this is where I’m a fan of bringing some bone broth, whether you made it or get it from a trustworthy source, that you can sip.  It’s going to give you so much more energy.  You can even bring in honey sticks.  Something like energy bites.  I mean, things that are going to get digested very quickly.  But you need energy to take you through your labor and to help you recover postpartum.  I have a labor aid recipe, which is essentially your own DIY electrolyte mix that you can bring that has sugar and salt and really hydrating.  That was in a time of, like, what do you mean I can’t eat?  I was starving, and I was so depleted.  And I know so many women go through that, as well.  I definitely list out a lot of things to eat if you were home, or if you’re going to a hospital, things that you could bring.  So those were three examples, I think, where I was not as prepared as I wish I was from a food perspective.

Fortunately, there are fewer restrictions on eating in the hospital now, at least in my area in Michigan.  As a doula, my clients are able to snack on a lot of the items you mentioned.

Which is amazing!

Yes, big change.

It’s a big change, absolutely.  And I think one of the other areas that I wanted the book to go into is that fourth trimester recovery.  I don’t think women are prepared for how tired and how starving they’re going to be once the baby arrives, especially if they do plan on nursing.  Every client of mine is so surprised how hungry they are.

Absolutely.  Especially, like you said, with breastfeeding.  I felt like I could eat all the time, and yet I also felt like I was caring for my baby and toddler at the same time.

100%.  Suddenly, your nutrition isn’t about you anymore, right?  But yet your needs are the highest they’ve ever been.  You just went through a marathon.  You carried a baby for ten months, and you’re nursing, which essentially is like you’re running at least six miles a day.  This is such an important time to think about fortifying yourself, and women are just so depleted and exhausted.  I really have – not necessarily a meal plan, but the guidance in terms of, like, your snacks really have to be mini meals and things that you can do to make sure that you’re fortifying yourself.  You just need more of everything, essentially, at this stage.  You need even more protein.  You need even more of the healthy fats.  You need even more of the hydration for you and the carbohydrates.  That was a stage that I just was like – it’s a feeling that you’ve never felt before, and you want to keep up your milk supply, too, which is really important.  I have 40 recipes in the back of the book.  My other two books were more of cookbooks.  This is more of a nutrition book with 40 recipes.  But I definitely have some recipes.  They’re divided into sections.  One section is some lactogenic recipes that can help boost milk supply.  I have sections of breakfast.  I have healthified comfort foods.  I have things you can freeze in advance during that nesting period.  I really have – I want people to rely on their freezers a lot to have a lot food in advance that you can just defrost.  I think it’s really, really important.  I have a whole sweets section.  I have a vegetable section, which are really hard for a lot of pregnant women to consume, especially in that first trimester, and they want sour tastes.   A slaw is great; or so many of my clients could, in the beginning, get down a cucumber salad with rice wine vinegar and olive oil and sesame seeds, something along those lines.  Any chance to get some nutrition in when you’re not feeling good.  But also through that postpartum, nutrition deficiency is like – you know, some people develop thyroid issues and they don’t realize that maybe that might be contributing some feelings of depression and anxiety.  Those are nutrients to pay attention to, as well.  Your needs for iodine in pregnancy increase 50%, which is huge.  And again, iron; your needs increase one and a half times.  Your blood volume doubles in pregnancy.  I don’t think a lot of pregnant women prior to pregnancy necessarily thought about their iron intake unless they were anemic, but especially iron, iodine, protein in the postpartum stage is really important.  And as you said, you probably see so much depletion in these women.

Definitely.  So one thing that is a constant struggle – you mentioned freezing food, and it’s great that you have all of these recipes, but oftentimes with well-meaning family and friends and meal trains, the food that is prepared is not often the healthiest for a postpartum mother. 

Yes.  Well, this is where – it’s true.  I mean, hopefully, you can be an advocate for yourself and ask your well-meaning friends and family if you have certain requests of what you would like to eat.  I think it is also maybe in advance going – if you don’t think you might be cooking, it might be going through restaurant menus that you know you’ve loved before and highlighting certain things that a partner or someone can order that you know is healthy that you like.  I know in New York and various cities, there’s some postpartum or just meal delivery services.  Instead of gifts, a lot of friends accumulate funds for things like this and do a week of meal delivery for a mother or for the family, something along those lines.  I think a little bit of that is thinking in advance what would be the most helpful.  And your friends want to help.  Your family wants to help.  If it’s money for a meal delivery service, do it.

Or even for friends and family members who love to cook, send them some of the recipes in your book.

Exactly.  Exactly.  I mean, that’s one thing that’s amazing about the Big Book of Organic Baby Food and Toddler Food.  All these women or families who are telling me that they might not be cooking it, but they’re giving it to their caretakers, the recipes, so they’re giving it to the grandparents and are like, here, make anything from this book.  So it just makes their lives so much easier.

Definitely.  Yes, as postpartum doulas, we do light meal preparation, so we make snacks and food for toddlers.  It is always helpful to have a guide or recipe that would be helpful for the entire family.

Exactly.  I always try to strike a balance with all my books.  These are going to be foods that the whole family can enjoy that’s nutritious and yummy, but easy.  Easy, too.  I want my recipes to be under 30 minutes.  Some are going to take more time, like if you’re making – I do have a lasagna.  Obviously, that’s going to take more cooking time.  But it can last in the freezer for a long, long time.  I don’t want someone to spend tons of time in the kitchen if they don’t want to.  That’s why I want the recipes to be accessible and easy for everyone.

Love it.  Any final tips for our listeners, Stephanie?

I would just – I mean, again, one of my things is just that you have to be your own advocate during this.  Listen to your body.  It is such a fun and exciting time.  Be an advocate.  Ask questions to your doctor.  Ask your friends questions.  I think probably you see this, too, for nursing.  If you plan to nurse – I just think for women to go into it knowing that nursing is hard.  I see this time and time again, and I know it for myself.  I think the nursing situation can make or break your first few weeks for you of your postnatal experience.  I think a lot of women have their hearts set on nursing and if they can’t do it, it becomes emotionally and physically really tough.  I think just having a perspective that it’s hard.  Not to say don’t do it, but everybody responds to it differently.  I just want people to set their expectations and maybe have a plan B in mind if it doesn’t work out and that it’s really okay.  And also to try to set up some support for it.  If you know of a lactation specialist or if your doula is a lactation specialist, really reach out for that.  But again, I just feel like I was so lucky and thankful that my friends were super open and honest about their experience about that being tough.  I went in knowing that it might not work, and that’s okay.  I think just in this space, again, there’s so many resources to help you nurse and there’s so many great formulas, too, on the market now that I feel like we just didn’t have access to even a few years ago.  There’s always options.  I just think that’s one thing that’s really important.  And I would also say don’t worry if in that first trimester, you feel like all you can eat is bread and butter and cheese.  It’s okay.  Get through it.  Your baby will be fine.  They will take from your stores.  But do try to slowly incorporate, even if it’s a few bites, some protein for you.  The less that you eat, it’s sort of like this vicious cycle.  And if you’re nauseous, the less that you eat, you can become more nauseous, and you can get reflux.  So you really do sort of need to get that.  You need to eat to support your body and probably eat every two to three hours.  But I will say, just to take that pressure off, don’t worry about it.  A lot of women don’t feel well.  Do the best that you can.  That’s why second, thirst trimester and postpartum, we want to focus on the mom, too, to make sure that she can be healthy to support herself, to have your body heal as it should.  And then also to be able to go into a second or third or fourth pregnancy with their tanks full, right, instead of depleted.

That’s what it’s all about.

Yep, that’s what it’s all about.

Well, thank you for those tips.  Very helpful advice.  So, Stephanie, fill us in on how to get your books, to start, and then how our listeners can connect with you.

Great.  My books – you really can get them anywhere.  Amazon, for a lot of people, is just the easiest.  Amazon.com.  But you can get them at Barnes & Noble and Target, online and in the stores.  The pregnancy book won’t be out until April 30^th, but the other two at any point.  And you can find me @smiddleburg-rd.  That’s my Instagram.  And then middleburgnutition.com is my website.  And even though I’m based in Brooklyn, New York, I actually do a lot virtually.  I do a combination there.  I love working with women or families one on one, in any capacity.

Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom, Stephanie.  It was lovely, and I’ll have to have you back on to expand our conversation in the future.

I would love that.  Thank you so much!

IMPORTANT LINKS

Middleburg Nutrition

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming a Mother course