March 2024

Kelly shares the pros and cons of top breastfeeding gadgets with Kristin in the latest episode of Ask the Doulas.  Check out her free gadget videos here and subscribe to her YouTube Channel and her Breast Friends Forever Club for more videos as Kelly comes across more gadgets and the latest lactation research.

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am thrilled to chat with our resident breastfeeding expert, Kelly Emery.  Kelly teaching breastfeeding classes with Gold Coast Doulas, and she owns Baby Beloved.  She is a registered nurse and international board certified lactation consultant.  Hello, Kelly!

Hey, Kristin.  How are you today?

Doing well!  So our topic of the day is breastfeeding gadgets.  I know that you encounter – there are so many new gadgets that I can’t even keep up with everything on the market.  I would love to hear your thoughts on what you and your clients are loving, what you feel neutral, and what is a negative in your book.

Sure.  It is hard to keep up sometimes.  I’ve been doing this since 1994, and these gadgets have exploded.  I think it’s the internet.  There’s a market for all these things.  It spreads like wildfire.  If somebody says, oh, I used this product and it helped me a lot, it’s going to spread like wildfire.

Exactly.  Whether it’s TikTok, a moms’ group, influencers.  There’s just so many more ways to communicate new products on the market than there used to be.

Yeah.  And more moms are breastfeeding, too, and there’s inventive people out there trying to get some solutions for some nursing problems, so I get it.  I understand it.  I try to, with my clients that I see, go over the pros and the cons, and is this really helping or is it making things worse?  Just like with any product, there’s going to be a little bit of detective work to see if this is really working or not.

Definitely.  So what is your first product?

I have ten little gadgets that I gathered together that I think are some of the biggest ones that I see in my practice.  The first one is the Silverette.  They’re these silver cups, and they look like little rounded hats.  You put them on your nipples, in between your bra and your nipples.  It has a cooling effect.  It has silver in there, which has some antibacterial properties.  And it stops your nipples from rubbing against the bra if that’s something that irritates you.  Pros and cons: they can be very soothing.  One of the cons is they’re very expensive.  They’re in the $60-70 range.  There are some that I’ve seen that knockoffs, probably less silver in them these days, so there are some out there in maybe the $30-40 range.  But typically the really good silver ones are $60-70.  They come in two different sizes, so if you have a smaller nipple or a larger nipple, you can get those.  It’s hard to tell when you’re ordering it on the website.  I don’t know what their return policy is, but hopefully they would take it back if you got the wrong size.  Typically, they would both work.

One of the cons that I see and other lactation consultants that I see is when moms are using them too long.  We even have a word for it, called the Silverette sign.  If moms are eight weeks in and still using the Silverettes, something might be going on here.  Do you still really need those?  Why are you still in pain six to eight weeks in?  The Silverette sign is something that we look for if moms are still using them on a daily basis for pain.

The other thing is they kind of collect if moms leak.  Not every mom leaks, of course, but if you do leak and your Silverettes kind of are wet all the time and your nipple skin is bathed in wetness 24/7, that can irritate the skin.  Think of wearing a bathing suit all the time; you’re going to irritate the skin.  So if you’re leaking a lot into them, I would definitely give them some dry time in between, or else it’s always wet.  It’s going to damage the skin.  That’s my two cents on Silverettes; the pros and cons.  If you do use it, I would use it for a short amount of time, and if you’re not getting better with them, I would reach out for help.

Excellent advice.  What’s next?

The next one  is the massagers.  There’s many on the market.  One is called LaVie.  They can heat up; they can vibrate, and it’s a little thing that you can put on if you have some tenderness or some hardness on your breasts; you can put it over that area.  A lot of moms swear by them.  I think you can turn the heat on or off, so you can do just vibration or just heat or both.  That’s kind of nice.  And sometimes it feels really good to maybe unclog some stuff or if you feel like you have some hardness in your breasts, you can pop it into your bra and it just sits in there.  It’s kind of thinnish.  It’s not that big, so you can kind of pop it in there and just go about your day.  But one of the things with the massagers – I would be careful of them not getting too rough because some of the things that we find with mastitis, which is basically inflammation of the breasts, any kind of hardness that you may feel, you don’t want to be too rough with the breast tissue.  You don’t want to push really hard on the breasts.  It’s kind of like petting a cat.  You want to do gentle breast manipulation.

Similar to what you do in the shower when you have some clogged ducts, yes.

Yes, just something kind of gentle.  Just don’t try to bruise yourself.  We’re finding that with too much pressure on our breasts, it just inflames the tissue even more, which makes total sense.  And then all the tissue around that area is even more inflamed, so that’s no good.  With the massagers, I would use cold instead of heat.  There’s a new protocol out this year about breast pain, and it’s a lot caused by inflammation.  And what do we do when we’re inflamed, like when we twist our ankle and it swells up?  We put ice on it.  We don’t put heat on it.  So if you did want to use one of these massagers, I would be hesitant to use too much power, but also, I would focus more on cold if you did like the sound of this massager.  That’s about all I have to say about that one.

Excellent advice.  What’s number three on your list?

Number three is the hydrogel pads.  I actually used these.  They’re for moist wound healing, and in my days when I would work in the hospital, like with elderly patients – I’ve worked in nursing homes with elderly patients and stuff like that a long, long time ago – during nursing school, we would use these pads that would be kind of like loose dressings that would go over the skin, and it kind of helps the skin prevent a scab from forming.  It helps kind of heal from the inside out, sort of.  So sometimes moms who have almost like a rugburn on the face of their nipples – these can be very soothing.  Soothing for moms.  And you just wear them for 24 hours, maybe 48 hours, and it should heal you enough.  Again, if you’re using the hydrogel pads for weeks and weeks and weeks, that’s another reason to reach out to a lactation consultant, too.  These should be temporary things.  They’re cooling, and they feel wonderful.  They’re cheap.  You can get four of them for, like, $5 at Target.  They’re easy to use.  You don’t have to really scrub your nipples or anything; they’re safe for baby.  Sometimes I tell moms to have some before you have a baby.  Put them in the fridge, and then if you do happen to get sore nipples, they’re there, and they’re cold and nice and soothing.  If you’re super cracked and bleeding and stuff like that, you may want to reach out to your lactation consultant or your doctor about another kind of healing method.  But those are nice for a little bit of minor pain on the tips of the nipples.

Right, and since it’s inexpensive, it’s good to have on hand.

Yeah.  If you don’t need them, you can always regift them to a friend.  Or use them on any other cut on your body, actually.  Like if you cut your knee or something like that.  They’re good for moist wound healing for any purpose.

So what’s next, Kelly?

The next one is a very popular one.  Milk collectors, so things like the Ladybug or the Hakka.  There are tons of brands.  It’s just exploded.  They’re sometimes circular or oval, and you can pop them right into your bra.  Sometimes you can have suction on them and sometimes not; they just hold them there.  But if you leak, say you start nursing on one side and you’re leaking on the other side, you can collect some milk.  You can get milk passively, because when you let down on one side, you also let down on the other side.  Sometimes, some women who leak can put that little collector in, and then they have a little bit of milk to put in their freezer or whatever they want to do with it.

I could have used those for sure when I was breastfeeding.

I know.  I would just put a cloth diaper into my bra because otherwise my whole bra would get soaked on the other side.  So there’s good and bad.  It’s nice and convenient, a way to get a little milk, and everything kind of passive.  The downside that I see of this is that, number one, it’s something you have to carry around all the time.  It can become another thing I have to wash, another thing I have to carry around, all that stuff.  The other downside that I see is if you start getting too much milk in this thing.  If you’re using it eight to ten times a day and you’re getting two ounces each time, that’s 20 ounces a day.  That’s another baby.  You’re telling your body that you’ve got twins, basically.  And this perpetuates an oversupply, which can be – sounds like a good thing, but then it’s a job.  It’s a job if you’re having to do both.  Now you have to take the collector with you to take out this milk, otherwise you’re going to be uncomfortable on the other side.  So pros and cons of it, I would say just use it sparingly and judiciously.  And also, I’ve seen this too, Kristin, where a mom nurses – say she starts on the right side.  She puts that collector on the left side, and it takes out two ounces.  Now when she moves baby over to the left side, they’re frustrated because somebody – the Hakka – just took out all my milk.  Like, what are you doing here?  Not that your breasts won’t regenerate more milk, but it’s going to be a little harder for the baby to get the milk out because we just basically pumped out or removed two ounces from the left side.  So I always tell moms to give baby first dibs on both sides.  So if you start on the right and then you go to the left, then you can put the Hakka on the right side that baby is already done with.  Does that make sense?  Let the baby have the first dibs at the milk, and then whatever’s left over – half an ounce, a little quarter ounce, anything like that on the other side, you can squirrel that away for a nice little stash for going back to work or whatever.  But it’s not like removing so much milk that it’s going to make the baby upset.

Good point.  Okay. 

The next one is alcohol strips.  You may see them – well, all over Target and on the internet.  So if moms want to have some alcohol and they’re kind of wondering if it’s going to be safe for me to give my baby this milk –

It’s one of the most common mom Facebook group questions.  I have to go this event, like a wedding, for example.  Can I have a drink?  I’m still breastfeeding.  The whole bit.  It’s still a very common question.

Interesting.  That’s probably why this product has come along and is still on the market because there’s that question about this education.  And I will tell you that just from a physiological standpoint, your blood alcohol level and your milk alcohol level are the same.  So if you start drinking and your blood alcohol level goes up, at that same time, your milk alcohol level is going to go up as well because alcohol crosses over so well.  However, as you sober up – say it’s been a couple hours since your last drink.  As your blood alcohol level goes down, your milk alcohol level is also going to come down.  So you don’t have to pump and dump.  Your liver – your whole system, your body is going to filter it back out, into your liver, out of your body, out of your milk.  So it’s not something that you have to really worry about if you give it some time.  Time is what’s going to make your alcohol level go down in your milk.  I usually tell moms, feed your baby, and right after that, then you can start drinking.  Or say you’re at a wedding and you don’t have your baby.  Pump, and then you can start drinking, and then, say, three hours later, if you didn’t drink a lot, that alcohol should be out of your system, and you can just pump that milk and keep it.  If for some reason you’re drunk when you’re pumping, then that’s a different story, because if you’re drunk and you’re not even safe enough to drive, then I know your alcohol level is high in your bloodstream, so I know it’s high in your milk, as well.  So for those instances where you’re like, okay, overdid it here; I’ve got to pump, though, because my breasts are going to explode – for that milk, I would still keep it, but I would label it high alcohol milk, and then what you can do when you go home, you can dilute it with your other stash.  You can dilute it with 20% of the high alcohol milk and 80% fresh milk without alcohol.  Does that make sense?

It does.

A little bit of alcohol is fine.  If you’re safe enough to hold your baby, you’re safe enough to breastfeed your baby.  We’ll put it that way.  If you don’t feel safe walking around holding your baby or driving or anything like that, yeah, then I would pump and either dump it or label it and save it, like dilute it with other milk if you want to go to that trouble.

The alcohol strips, they will work, but sometimes they’ve gotten some false positives.  I’ve seen this in a lot of literature that we look at; it’s not 100%.  Those alcohol strips are not 100%.  I think moms mainly can just trust their body.  If they have an alcohol problem, this is a different conversation to have with their doctor and lactation, everything like that.  But if they have someone around them, if they have a friend, if they have someone else who – definitely if they’re sober and they can kind of tell, oh, I think you shouldn’t be driving – then hopefully that person would kind of step in and say something, too.  Like, you should probably dump this milk if you’re going to pump it, or we can save it.  We can do a milk bath with it, for heaven’s sakes.  You don’t have to totally throw it away.  The strips are okay, but I just wouldn’t make that the only definitive thing.  I would say, what was my state of mind?  What was my alcohol level at that time when I was actually pumping?  Does that make sense?

It does. 

Typically, we process alcohol about a drink per hour.  So that’s, like, a beer, a glass of wine, all of those.  We process it out of our body about a drink per hour, if that makes sense.  So if you had one drink, definitely by two or three hours, that’s going to be out of your system.

Right.  So meeting a friend for happy hour, going to a wedding, that would be fine with one drink.

That would be completely fine.  If you have four drinks within two hours, then that’s a different story.

Thank you for clarifying.

No problem.  The next one is cooling packs.  Number six is cooling packs, and those are – you can’t not see them on the internet.  You can put them in your freezer; you can put them in your refrigerator.  Sometimes you can put them in your microwave to heat them up.  They’re nice.  Some of them are very – like, there’s booby tubes that are nice and soft and you can just kind of wrap them around and put them inside your bra.  So especially with cooling packs, for anything with inflammation, when we get a hard area in our breast or red on our breast or if we get engorged for day three, four, five when our milk is coming in and we’re engorged, or say we’re ready to wean and getting engorged – cold is the way to go.  It’s going to help inflammation go away.  It’s going to constrict your blood vessels.  Lots of good things about being cool.  So the cold packs – especially the softer ones fit really nicely.  If you don’t have the money for that or if you’re in a pickle, I also have moms take just diapers, like baby diapers, and fill them with water and put them in the freezer.  They have a nice shape around them that they fit around the breast really well.  When they leak, they usually just go into the diaper again.  They’re not going to leak all over your bra.  The other one is just some frozen peas wrapped in a towel, if that’s all you’ve got and you have, like, one little area that’s kind of hard or painful to touch, you can get some frozen peas.  Right next to your skin is probably going to be a little too cold, so wrap it in a thin towel and then just put it on that area.  You can go all the way from those fancy things all the way down to just some frozen corn in your freezer for that.

Excellent. 

And then the next one is pillows.  There are so many pillows on the market.  We don’t have Babies R Us around here anymore, but on the internet, it’s a ton of options nowadays.

Yeah, it’s not just Boppy and My Breast Friend.  There are so many on the market.

So many.  And whenever moms come to my office to help with lactation, I always broach it as this is going to be a personal thing.  When moms are first starting, especially if they have a C-section, and they don’t want baby even potentially bumping into their C-section scar, their incision – they like the thought of a pillow.  So, cool.  You can use pillows.  And a lot of moms do in the beginning when they’re first getting – it’s kind of like training wheels.  You start with all this stuff that helps you focus and helps you feel your confidence when you first start this.  But over time, moms usually will ditch the pillow because it’s in the other room and I’ve just got to feed, or I’m out and I don’t want to have to carry this big pillow with me.

Exactly.  Or with baby two or three, it’s like, all right, I’ve got this.

Yeah.  Sometimes just using your arm and sometimes if you’re out, you can put your diaper bag underneath your elbow for support or find a chair that has an armrest with it.  When they’re in my office, I usually take that opportunity to say, would you like to try without a pillow, just old school?  Like it’s 1624.  It’s not 2024.  And they don’t even have nursing pillows.  Do you want to try it old school mammalian way?  And they usually do, and it’s so cool to be able to show them how they can do this without any devices.  That gives them flexibility for going out, or if I forgot my pillow or I’m in the back of my car and the baby’s screaming and I have to feed in the car.  Then you can just do it old school, and it’s nice to have a pillow, but it’s also nice to know that you can do it without it, too.

So what’s next?

The next one is breast shells.  One is for inverted nipples or nipples that kind of fold in.  So there are shells that you can use that are kind of smaller.  They fit at the base of your nipple and they kind of help draw it out.  There’s no crazy good research saying that using them prenatally will actually make your nipples stick out postnatally, but sometimes it helps to – what I find it helpful with is if moms are engorged.  It’s kind of like reverse pressure softening, which means you’re putting a little pressure at the base of the nipple, pushing fluid back into the areola.  So sometimes if we’ve had a lot of IV fluids in labor and delivery, sometimes we can get some edema around our nipples or areola area, and the nipple kind of flattens out.  You can either use reverse pressure softening with your fingers, or you can wear those little shells inside your bra.  Another one is for – the wider opening of the breast shells is for sore nipples.  You can put those inside your bra, just like the Silverettes, so your nipple is not rubbing against fabric if you’re tender.  I will tell you with both of those things, breast shells too, make sure your bra is not too tight.  Because I’ve had it where moms put it in, but the bra is really tight, and then you take it off and there’s a big ring, like it’s been pushing into your skin.  That’s not good, either.  If you did want to use a tank top or something that’s not so tight against your breast, that’s better.  If you’re using these for too long, past the first week or two, then I would reach out for help to see what’s going on about why you’re still sore and needing those.

Then number nine is nipple everters.  It’s Lansinoh brand.  That’s the only one I know of, Lansinoh brand.  It’s purple.  It looks like a little bicycle horn, like you’d have on your bicycle.  You put it over your nipples, and – well, you squeeze and then put it over your nipples, and then you let go.  It suctions your nipple in there and pulls it out.  That’s something if moms have flatter nipples or their nipples kind of dimple in or they’re inverted, sometimes that helps bring it out long enough for the baby to latch.  Sometimes in the hospital, they even have them in the hospital and the nurses will give it to you right after delivery.

Pros and cons of that – pros is that it can work well to pull out your nipple, for some women, not everybody.  The cons are, I’ve seen some moms use it and it’s too much pressure and it leaves a hickey.  So if you are going to use those, be really careful about your suction level and don’t bruise yourself or leave yourself a hickey around your nipple, because that can make you sore.  That’s no good, either.

Again, going back to old school, if you didn’t have your everter – it fell on the ground, you can’t find it – you can just take your pointer finger and your thumb and just roll the base of your nipple.  Not the areola, but just right at the base.  You can roll it gently between your fingers, and often it pops out enough for baby to find it and to latch, as well.  So that’s another idea.

Excellent tip.  One more?

Yes, we made it.  The last one is going to be about lubrications and ointments.  With lubrications, there’s a lot of things out there.  A ton; again, a ton of ointments on the market out there, and some are very helpful.  There’s some with lanolin, there’s non-lanolin, there’s coconut oil.  Calendula oil.  There’s tons of little things out there.

So many organic ones.  Earth Mama.

Yeah.  So many to choose from.  Earth Mama, Angel Baby, Mother Love.  There’s just a lot on the market, and they’re all going to be probably pretty soothing to you.  Usually hypoallergenic, and they’re not going to cause any problems.  You’re always going to want to look.  If it’s got some weird things in there, you’re going to want to test it on the inside of your wrist a little bit to make sure you’re not allergic to it.  I have had some moms who, even though it’s supposed to be hypoallergenic, lanolin is irritating to them.  If they use it on other parts of their skin, they’re like oh, I had a reaction.  No wonder.  I’ve been using this ointment for four weeks.  No wonder I’m sore.  So just kind of test it just to make sure that you’re not allergic to some component of it.  Again, some babies, you put on ointment and the baby doesn’t like the taste of it, so you’d want to dab it off.  Some are like, oh, what is this?  This does not taste like you, Mom, and it’s too slippery; it’s too oily.  I’m not going to do it.  So you can just gently dab it off before you nurse.  Then there are lubrications, like for pumping.  There are pump sprays out there.  Sometimes it can make a really big difference.  You’re going to want to get the right size of brush shield flanges, and a lactation consultant can help you with that.  But also, especially if you’re a little tender, a dab of that stuff around the base can really help with comfort, too.  You can use coconut oil.  Anything food grade, like coconut oil or olive oil if your skin isn’t sensitive to that, or any of those pumping sprays on the market.  You can go all the way up to buying a pumping spray all the way down to just grabbing some coconut oil from the your kitchen from wherever you keep it.  And just a tiny dab will do you.  With any of these ointments, you don’t have to overdo it because it can get too slippery, and that can make you increase your suction on your pump too much, and then we cause damage.  Just a little dab will do you.  Everything in moderation.  And some moms don’t have time or money for any of that and will just use their own milk.  You can hand express some of your own milk and rub it into your nipple or rub it onto the breast shield while you’re pumping.  That might be the old school way to do it, as well.

Thank you for sharing all of your gear tips!  I appreciate your expertise!

You know, and Kristin, I’m not someone to take away a gadget that’s working for someone.  I know that sometimes you find something – if you’re desperate and you’re looking for hope and you find something and it works, you’re going to say, I don’t care.  This works for me.  I’m not going to give this up.  This one thing really works for me; I’m not giving it up.  So, cool.  If it’s working for you, beautiful.  If it’s something that is going long term –

It’s like a crutch in a way.

Yeah.  Say with the massager, you’ve got a lump, and you get rid of it.  But then it comes back again.  If you’re needing this massager, like if you keep getting lumps and you need the massager, yes, it gets rid of the lump, but then why are we still getting lumps?  I would recommend doing some true detective work about figuring out why we keep getting this issue.  Why are we still sore a month later?  What’s going on?  And that’s where it would be good – if you find you’re using too much of these gadgets all the time, it might be a good point in your lactation journey to reach out to a consultant to figure out why we’re needing these going forward and how we can maybe get rid of some of these training wheels so maybe we don’t need it anymore.

Exactly.  Any final tips for our listeners, Kelly?

No.  I mean, I went through these quickly, but I have a YouTube channel, and on my website, I’ve got videos where I go through all of these ten things and more, just about old school breastfeeding stuff and – there’s lots of stuff on there on my free resources page.  That’s where I have all the videos, and I go more in depth about these ten things that we just talked about.

Excellent.  And I wanted to give you a shout out.  You are an amazing contributor in our upcoming book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, in the feeding section of the book.  That will be out on Mother’s Day, actually.  So very soon!  Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our readers and our Ask the Doulas podcast listeners.

Yeah, you’re welcome!  And congratulations on this book!  It’s no easy thing to write a book, so congratulations to you.  I cannot wait to get my hands on a copy!

Can’t wait for you to see it in person!  And I would love for you – you shared your website, Kelly, but for you to share your other social media channels.  You mentioned your YouTube channel.  You’re on Instagram, Facebook, and so on?

Yeah.  All of the things.  You can find me – usually, it’s going to be “inc.”  Somebody else had Baby Beloved, so I had to do Baby Beloved Inc.  So @babybelovedinc.  That would be my handle for Instagram, Facebook, and my website, too.

Thank you so much, and we’ll have to chat about pumps next time.

Absolutely.  There’s a lot on the market for those, too.

Definitely.  Thank you!

 

IMPORTANT LINKS

Baby Beloved

Kelly’s free resources

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother class

Kelly’s lactation class at Gold Coast

 

Kristin chats about the Fear and Now Documentary with Liat Ron, producer and director.  Kristin and Liat discuss how HypnoBirthing impacted her second birth and why she decided to create a documentary about her experience along with the experiences of other families captured in the film. 

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Liat Ron today.  Liat is a filmmaker, among many other things.  She’s also an actor, writer, producer, Middle Eastern dancer, and co-founder of Techealthiest.  Welcome, Liat!

Hi!  I’m very, very excited to be here.  Thank you for having me!

Yes!  Gold Coast is all about HypnoBirthing, and we’ve been teaching the HypnoBirthing childbirth preparation method since we launched the agency in 2015.  So when you approached me about your new film, Fear and Now, I was all about chatting, and not only about the HypnoBirthing method, but also about birth trauma and some of the other topics that your documentary covers.  I’d love to hear a bit more about your background and why you chose this particular topic for your new documentary.

Well, I think the topic chose me.  I did not intend to become a documentary filmmaker.  I mean, I do come from the film, acting world.  I’m a producer.  I produce theater.  I haven’t considered becoming a documentary filmmaker, until my second birth.  I’ll take you back a little bit before my second birth.  Not just a little bit; my whole life I was scared of birth, I would say more than anyone I knew.  And it was, I think, in the level of phobia if somebody had to analyze me.  And then I was pregnant for the first time, and I thought I did all the proper preparation, and that birth wasn’t a good birth, but I expected it not to be good.  But what happened is that the fear intensified after the first birth.  In other words, when I got pregnant again, I was more terrified.  So when I came across HypnoBirthing – actually, the first time I came across HypnoBirthing was in a Barnes & Noble when I saw the book, and I really dismissed it, although I was really drawn to it.  I just basically browsed it in the store, and I was like, okay, this is too good to be true; bye bye, in my second trimester.

And then when I was in my third trimester – actually, week 30-something – somebody mentioned a class opening, and again, I just – it just sounded too good to be true, really.  And I only signed up for the class because it was becoming – I had nothing to lose.  It was my last resort.  Let’s see if something good can happen.

Yeah, what could hurt in trying the class?  You can always take something from any class or book that you read or podcast you listen to.  There’s always a good takeaway.

Yeah.  And I was still resistant.  Actually, the first class, I was like, okay, this won’t work for me.  I’m sorry.  I’m not someone who meditates.  I’m not – I can’t, like, sit and let go.  And the teacher told me, Liat, it’s not about letting go.  It’s about hyperfocusing.  I can do that.  I can hyperfocus.  Actually, I feel like HypnoBirthing is so beneficial for Type A, even more so.  We’ll get into that in the name.  It’s like the crunchy mama, but all the elements of HypnoBirthing are very mainstream, very scientific.  It’s just that it hasn’t been exposed to mainstream world.

Exactly.  I do agree that it gets a different reputation, almost like the crunchy, only want a homebirth or unmedicated.  But HypnoBirthing is for everyone.

Totally.  What I love about HypnoBirthing is it gives you so many tools, and you choose what works for you.  Everything about HypnoBirthing is customizing your experience to what works for you and being in the driver’s seat of your birth.  So I’ve come a long way from someone who lets people make all the decisions, because they really know best, to really learning what makes me, Liat, feel safe.  What makes me feel supported; what makes me feel fear-free.  So that birth was incredible.  I blew myself away.  My son was born – and by the way, my feeling about what’s right for me was birthing in a hospital, but in a birthing room that won’t feel like a hospital, so I feel safe if there’s special circumstances.  There are all the interventions available, but I don’t want the atmosphere of a hospital.  And I got that.  I found that hospital.  I chose the people who would be my providers and my doula.  But I still didn’t expect it.  I applied all the tools, and the tools are actually fun because it made my experience of pregnancy more enjoyable.  You relax.  You take your time.  I loved rainbow relaxation.  I came to the birth.

My son was born in that room, not in the water, which, again, water, I thought – it’s about in the moment.  And HypnoBirthing, it’s about being in the moment.  My body did not want water.  My doula actually was very wise to do let me touch water, to put a little water on me, before we went into the water, and my body just rejected it.  So water would not work, but for other people, it does.  So I really led myself into this birth that was intervention-free.  I would say as pain-free as could be.  My son was 9.6 pounds, and after that birth, I really came to the conclusion that that was just a rare miracle and those things don’t happen, and how lucky and amazing it was.  And then I realized – I learned.  I did a lot of research.  That’s actually a typical HypnoBirth.

And did you stay in touch with any other students?  Did you hear their birth stories, or did your instructor facilitate any communication?  I’m curious about that.

We were in a small class, and I did not stay in touch, but I do know that at least one did not go with a provider that honored HypnoBirthing, and that – you know, the tricky thing with providers is that they can tell you, oh, HypnoBirthing, no problem.  But when you get to the moment of birth, they totally take the agency away from you and they take charge.  So you really need to choose your providers, and they don’t have to be experts on HypnoBirthing.  In fact, we filmed providers who you can see they don’t know exactly what HypnoBirthing is, but if they’re not conducting themselves based on their big ego, then their job is easier.  They love it.  You know, doctors that really don’t operate from ego, they love it.  They’re not the god of the birth.  They’re not the owner of the birth.  And it makes it more enjoyable for them.  So there’s really no reason for providers not to support HypnoBirthing.  But yeah, in my case, it was that I did have the right providers, and I think it says a lot.  We should all have access to these providers, and all providers should consider it.  But I think that a film like my film will show that there’s nothing weird or esoteric about HypnoBirthing.  And we’re also going to make our choices, and then providers that don’t support HypnoBirthing maybe won’t do so well.  I mean, we live in a capitalistic, patriarchal system, so we’re just going to make our choices.  That is really my goal.

But after that birth, when I realized that that is HypnoBirthing and it wasn’t just a rare miracle, I decided that the world should know about it.  It should be in what I call mainstream consciousness so people can make the choice, and also that HypnoBirthing should be accessible to all is another goal of mine.  But how do you do it?  That’s the next step.

I love that your personal experience translated to wanting to create this very important film.  So how many different couples did you interview?  What was your process in creating the film?

My process was very intuitive.  Maybe like HypnoBirthing; my husband keeps saying that the process and the film itself is almost like HypnoBirthing.  Intuition from the gut was very visceral.  I did not – I just – I would meet one person.  They would lead me to another person.  And you know, in the beginning, it was very difficult to find people who were willing to be vulnerable on camera, to share their births, to let us follow them.  It was hard as it was, but somehow our first day of filming after maybe a year of pre-production was scheduled for the end of March of 2020.  So that was a hurdle!

Definitely!

So everything was delayed, and actually, we restarted that summer, social distancing, and being very creating.  Actually, the pandemic made the film more creative than it would have been if it wasn’t for the pandemic, and once we got vaccinated, we started flying and really traveling and we were less limited.  But we traveled across the country.  We just followed different families with different experiences, and somehow everything I wanted to show in the film just happened organically.  I knew that, for instance, HypnoBirthing works for every birth, right?  You could birth free; you could birth in the OR.  And somebody asked me, does that mean that you don’t use anesthesia?  Well, exactly.  You need a film to show you.  It can be HypnoBirthing along with a C-section as it’s done in the hospital.  But we didn’t follow anyone who wanted a C‑section, and I don’t wish a C-section on anyone, so we ended up having what we call in HypnoBirthing special circumstances with a few of our couples, and you can really see the difference.  It’s amazing.  I’m very excited for the world to see it.

Another thing I wanted to show – I remember this nurse friend used to tell me, well, HypnoBirthing works for a second birth.  It worked for you.  But it doesn’t work for first births.  Well, half of our couples were first birthers.  There you go.  So it’s really incredible.  And the providers we met along the way – just, really, everything that I had in my mind that needs to be shown in my film happened and happened on camera, except for the things that we made a lot of discoveries, and some discoveries, we weren’t prepared for, and that happens when you make a documentary, especially a personal documentary.  But those, of course, ended up in the film, and I’m also very excited for the turns that the film took to become what it is right now.

Yes, I cannot wait to watch it!  It’s so needed, and I do feel like you having these organic journeys with couples where it’s not a predictable documentary, does make it even more perfect, and adapting as you do in HypnoBirthing to whatever comes your way and using the tools that you have.  We have students in our HypnoBirthing classes that have a fear of a surgical birth and need to have a planned Cesarean birth due to medical issues, and they used the relaxation and the pregnancy practice to overcome those fears.  So as you mentioned, it really is for everyone.

Totally.  This is the platform I’m comfortable with, film, but we just need to get it to the masses.  We just need to get this knowledge to the masses, and in the form of entertainment, I think, is pretty optimal.

Agreed.  And people do love consuming video, and there’s so many ways to access films.  I’m sure you’ll be having many launch events for the film in different locations, especially involving some of the couples that you filmed.  It’s got to be so fun to have them see their journey on film.

Yes.  All the couples that we filmed and followed were people who are normally private people, people who don’t like to be exposed to the world with their vulnerabilities, with their most intimate moments of giving birth.  But they were so dedicated to the idea that this is really the only way to show the world what HypnoBirthing is.  And the film is not a birth video that you would Google and see on YouTube.  The film is really an entertainment piece.  It follows a journey.  It follows stories.  There are obstacles that we all meet and conquer, and really, it took the people’s comfort level to be as high as can be, to be in this film.  And they were comfortable because they wanted this film to be out.  I’m very honored that they chose to share those moments with us, with the world.

Definitely.  And did you get in touch with HypnoBirthing International, or how did you collaborate with the – because there are similar methods, like Gentle Birth or HypnoBabies.  But you’re specifically talking about HypnoBirthing?

Yes.  I am talking about the original method.  The reason I’m talking about the original method is, A, I create from what I know.  I don’t know anything about the other methods.  I know what I was trained with, and it wouldn’t make sense for me to create from another viewpoint or needing to learn about other methods.  And it was also the first one.

Exactly.  They all were offshoots of the original concept.

I’m just putting it out there; it’s also on homage to Marie Mongan, who started this revolution.

She was amazing.  So birth trauma is a topic that you’re passionate about.  How do you feel this film and awareness can prevent some future trauma or help people in processing past trauma as they’re preparing?  As you had even mentioned, your first birth didn’t go the way you wanted, so you had some fears going into the next one.  I would like to explore that a little bit with you.

I touched on it a little bit before, about the discoveries I wasn’t prepared for.  Okay, so I was not passionate or invested in working through birth trauma or the idea of birth trauma.  My original idea was to bring a film to the world that shows what HypnoBirthing is and is inspiring birth revolution from within the system, which I can explain later what it means, but really, HypnoBirthing accessible to all, and to show what it really is.  I was carrying birth trauma from my first birth.  My assumption was that we all expect births to be terrible, and then they’re terrible, and that’s it.  A trauma is really – like, what happened to me, I was healthy, and my daughter in my first birth was healthy, even though it was very traumatic.  I suppressed that trauma because everything was sort of okay, and it was normal.  But I was holding on to trauma, and I wasn’t aware of it, and I wasn’t aware of what it was doing to me.

Now, throughout the journey of filming Fear and Now, I suppressed my trauma even more.  I actually developed guilt and shame whenever things came up for me because I met with people who almost died at birth.  So really, there was really no place for me to let myself think that I had birth trauma.  So I buried the trauma even more.  But I guess trauma is trauma.

It is.  That’s what I believe.

And every trauma has to be acknowledged, but the thing is that it’s so normalized in our society that we don’t even know that we have trauma.  All I knew is that whenever I started talking about that birth, I would start crying, and then I would just change the subject and do something else, and that was it.  So I had never talked about that birth until nine years later, accidentally, unintentionally, on camera towards the end of filming Fear and Now.  And that became the second theme of the film.  I did some research.  I learned that 30% of women who birth go through birth trauma.  30%.  And I found out that the research is based on self-reporting, but if we don’t know that we have trauma, then how would we self-report that we have trauma?  I believe that closer to 100% have trauma.  So what do we do with that?

First of all, we acknowledge it and we don’t minimize it.  We don’t suppress it.  We find a way to release it.  And I think there are many ways to release it.  It doesn’t have to be a fancy way.

The fear release in HypnoBirthing, for example, is one way.

To me, it was just talking about it and really letting it out and letting myself cry and letting myself really tell the story, and it’s as simple as that.  For deep trauma, you might need to release or process a few times.  But the bottom line is, the first thing is to be aware.  And it’s hard to be aware in a society that normalized birth trauma as really what you’re supposed to experience.  And I know that just as much as HypnoBirthing changed my life, the trauma release changed my life, as well.  So that became the second theme of Fear and Now.

I love how it organically unfolded!  What are your tips for our listeners as they prepare for upcoming births?  Or even pre-conception?

Especially, I come from really profound fear.  As a child, I remember, it was so scary.  And it took one birth, and then the second birth, I educated myself.  And I find HypnoBirthing is the most thorough course that’s offered.  That’s personally how I see it.  It’s really about awareness, right?  This film is about HypnoBirthing, but any type of education that teaches you physiological birth and how to release fears – I can’t tell people that everyone should do HypnoBirthing.  But I can tell people that everyone should know about it.  You should know about it, what it really is, because there’s so many misconceptions about it, including the name.  So I suggest, yes, exploring what this class is.  Actually, one of the reasons I was drawn to taking the class the second time around, that I thought it would be a refresher course.  It is very thorough in teaching you about birth, if anything.  But the tools are so powerful, and what I love about it is that it offers you so many tools that a few, for sure, would work for you, and really, also people who have had previous births or any traumas, to sort of – I mean, when you watch the film, you realize that it can just come up in the worst moments.  And I think that when you give birth – I think that if I didn’t have HypnoBirthing, my second birth would have been more traumatic because I was still holding onto trauma from the first time.  So finding out what trauma is, really.  It’s not – a lot of things that are trauma, we don’t consider as trauma.  I guess, cleanse yourself of your traumas as much as you can before you enter this world of birth.

Great advice.  So how can our listeners support your film, Liat?

Well, we are deep into post-production, which – we are basically in labor.  The film is in labor.  And baby Fear and Now is crowning.  We are, right now, in our last phase of fundraising.  You can go to our website, fearandnowmovie.com, to explore more about the film.  You can follow us on social media.  We’re mainly active on Instagram, @fearandnowmovie.  Also, on Facebook, we are @fearandnow.  You can sign up to our newsletter on the website.  You can reach out through our website or DM us, and we’d love to hear feedback or if anybody is interested in learning more about our plans for the future, we are here.

Love it.  Well, thank you so much for sharing your beautiful journey to creating Fear and Now!  I can’t wait to watch the film!

Yes, I’m very excited to be in this phase of post-production and really to get this film to the masses because that is the goal, really.  It is not – the film is not an esoteric, sort of grungy film, which there’s room for that, too.  It is a very mainstream documentary that is meant for the masses.

Perfect.  Thank you so much, and we will share information with our audience and our Gold Coast clients as we get updates on when the film is coming out!

Thank you so much, Kristin!  Thank you for having me!

IMPORTANT LINKS

Support Fear and Now!

Fear and Now

HypnoBirthing classes from Gold Coast Doulas

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother course

Kristin Revere and Jess Hull discuss the concept of matrescence and the changes that happen to women when they become a mother.

Hello, hello!  This is Kristin Revere with Ask the Doulas, and I am thrilled to chat with Jess Hull today.  Jess is a former Facebook and Google executive who founded Mother Me, which is an app and online course and support framework for successful women who want to do more than just survive their postpartum.  The system Jess developed is called the Mother Me Method, and it’s based on the science and data of matrescence as well as incorporating global perspectives on how other countries and cultures support postpartum women.  Welcome, Jess!

Thank you!  Thanks so much for having me!

I am very excited to dive into the major transition that I don’t feel like gets enough acknowledgment in becoming a mother.  I actually have an online course called Becoming A Mother that started during the early stages of the pandemic when we had to move everything to virtual, and it’s all about women supporting women and a mix of preparing for birth but also the transition to motherhood.  So we have a similar concept, but I love that yours is so research based, clinical, academic focused.  So I would love to hear more about what drew you to this rite of passage and major life occurrence.  Was it a mix of personal and professional coming from the tech industry?  It’s a big change.

Yeah, absolutely.  So I had two children very close in age.  They’re 18 months apart.  And with those postpartum experiences, I felt like my world was rocked both times.  The first time, I like to say that I was comically naïve on what to expect.  Then the second time, you’d think, okay, you’ve been through this.  You know, you should know a little bit more, be better prepared.  But the reality was, my mindset going into it was really just about surviving.  And I was like, I got through it before.  I can get through it again.  And after getting through it, I realized I didn’t really want to have more children, not because I didn’t want to grow my family, but because I didn’t want to have the experience of postpartum again.  And that mindset of just struggling through something that’s meant to be such a beautiful time, I realized, was what was holding me back.  So I started just looking at some data and research, and again, that’s where my background in tech came into play.  I saw that 90% of women felt unprepared for the postpartum experience.  So that helped me feel validated, number one.  But number two, that gave me hope that 10% of women were doing something that helped them feel better about it.  So I used that insight to say, well, what are they doing?  I’m really curious.  What works well for people?  And it’s not just a naïve first time mom problem.  As a second-time mom, I experienced it, too.  And the more I talked to other friends, family, and coworkers going through it, it was shockingly universal how many people felt the postpartum stage was truly something they just wanted to survive.  Like, how low the bar was set that we didn’t even want to enjoy it.  We just wanted to get through it.  So that was really the key catalyst in getting me to explore this space.

And then I started to talk to my husband about it, and we said, what would need to be true for us to feel confident in expanding our family, that it wouldn’t rock us again and that we could do more than just survive?  That’s really how I started down this path and used my background in data and research to understand, again, the insights that would help me feel more empowered rather than just survival mode that we sort of default to.

Yes, and it makes perfect sense with your background in tech to transition to an app to be able to merge your personal experience and your background and also just being able to promote a multi-option business, between the online course and the support that you have.

Yeah, and again, sort of in work and in practice, we know that people can have the best information in the world, but if it’s not convenient and it’s not actionable, they’re not going to do it.  So convenience, I think, is a key part to changing an outcome, whether it’s in postpartum or in any aspect of life.  So I really wanted to design a program that would fit somebody like me who was a busy working woman who has a lot going on but wanted to take care of herself and not have it be a massive time commitment or a huge learning curve.  I’m a very visual learner myself, so developing the app with the video modules was something that I felt as a user I would really want.  And as somebody who’s creating content, you know, I didn’t want to blast it all over social media, either, so having a private community that felt like a safe place for moms to learn and grown and connect was really the heart of how I designed the business.

I love it.  So in your research, I’m curious about what you found that 10% of women were doing that helped them to feel confident and prepared in the journey to motherhood and becoming a parent, whether it’s baby one or baby five.

Yes.  So in the study of matrescence, we know that women go through universal changes and transitions in becoming a mother.  So for those who may have not heard the term matrescence before, it’s exactly like adolescence, which is the process of a child becoming an adult, except matrescence refers to a woman becoming a mother.  And just as in puberty you go through hormonal changes, social changes, identity, you have different nutritional needs, your brain evolves and you have neurological changes – the same exact things happen to women when they become a mother.  And I think that when we holistically embrace the process of becoming a mother, we feel not only more prepared but more at ease with the transition.

So much of what makes this process difficult for women is the cultural narrative on getting your pre-baby self back and feeling like your old self, and there’s this sort of obsession with who you were pre-baby.  Matrescence is really focused on embracing and evolving into the new version of you.  It’s almost like surrendering to the process.  If you think about an adult sort of clinging to the naivete of childhood, you’d be like, buddy, you got to grow up.  It’s just part of life.  And yet for women, it’s sort of like almost a source of – an unrealistic, unobtainable goal to say, I want to be my pre-baby self.  And that sort of unintentionally shames this new version of the woman you’re becoming who’s stronger, who’s more compassionate, more empathetic, and maybe knows herself more.  So it’s embracing this new version of you and accepting this idea that you are meant to change and you’re meant to be somebody new.  I think that’s the foundation to having a better experience.

And in my research, I looked at other countries and cultures and the things that they do to help prepare the women in their communities as they become mothers, and they really celebrate this rite of passage, and they have rituals that honor not only what the body goes through, but what the spirit and mind go through, as well.  So I think there’s lot of different aspects that play into overall feeling more prepared, but the first foundational element is understanding that you are meant to be somebody new.  And when we look towards nature, we see that all the time.  A butterfly started as a caterpillar.  They’re not meant to want to be their caterpillar self again.  But it can be scary embracing the new you, so I understand why so many people sort of fight that urge and that change.  Surrendering to that, I think, helps.

And motherhood in our culture can be so isolating.  And again there is that pressure to get back to work, get back to getting your old jeans on, and just back to that former life, that is really hard to embrace when you’re going through so many changes.  And after giving birth, it’s all about the baby, and the mother often feels left alone and behind.  In so many cultures, with your studies, as you said, it’s all about celebrating this new journey and mothering the mother for oftentimes at least a month, if not longer.

Absolutely.  That’s actually the reason I named my company Mother Me, because I wanted it to be a call to action for women and everyone to recognize that women deserve the same love and care that we give our newborn.  And I think in the US, our culture is sort of women priding themselves on being super mom and doing it all and having it all, and that contributes to the isolation that you mentioned.  Where in other countries and cultures, there’s much more community support and the village support that we hear about, and I think women yearn for that connection and support.  We don’t necessarily want to do it alone, and we feel like it’s a sign of weakness to raise our hand and ask for help, but in reality, it’s a sign of strength to recognize, I need help at this moment.  And guess what?  I deserve help.  I’ve gone through a major medical event of nine months, and labor and delivery, of course, is no walk in the park, either.  So there’s no shame in needing help and actually recognizing that the mom deserves the help, I think, is another sort of cultural aspect I’m trying to support women in, in saying it’s a sign of strength to ask for and give yourself the support, just like you’d say that a baby needs help.  You’d never deny a baby love and care, so why would you deny it of yourself?

Right.  And so with this change, what has your research shown you about the shifts in relationships and how do you teach students in your course and in the app how to navigate relationship changes?

Another very compelling data point that I found from the Gottman Institute is that 70% of couples report a decline in relationship satisfaction after becoming parents.  And as somebody who went through that experience of having two under two, I’m quite honestly shocked that number’s not higher.  Having a baby and becoming the mom and dad or partners in parenthood is a wild ride in and of itself, and the dynamic and resentment is one of the biggest factors to that decline in relationship satisfaction.  In my own personal experience and in my research, I’ve focused a lot on the dynamics between the parents and supporting them as they evolve into new roles of individuals, of being a mother and father, and also being parents together and having different parenting styles, different family of origin values, different expectations of what this time will mean to them and sort of the traditions and rituals that they want to create with their family.

So one of the things that I teach in my program are – I call them mad libs for adults, if you remember those games that we played as kids.  Giving people language to ask their partner for help and communicate their experience – that is very unique.  What a mom goes through versus what a dad goes through: completely different, right?  And so much of what the woman goes through is invisible.  So even my husband, who’s very attuned to the female experience – he has three sisters – he still would be like, well, you look the same, or you look okay.  And I’d be like, how I look is not how I feel.  What I’m experiencing is completely invisible.  So let me tell you about it, and let me use language that helps me explain to you the complicated feelings that I’m having so he could have compassion for what was going on beneath the surface.

In my program, I have scripts where I have a list of emotions, a list of experiences, and you can fill in the blank with your partner in a way that’s kind of fun and a little silly.  Like, we want to have fun, and we don’t need to be so serious that it’s overwhelming or uncomfortable for couples, right?  So we have a little fun about it and say, like, here’s how I’m feeling, here’s what I need from you.  And sometimes it’s really just acknowledgement.  There’s no action that the man can do other than listen and acknowledge and say, I hear you.  I see you, and I appreciate you.  And that does wonders for making a relationship healthy, especially through this vulnerable transition of becoming parents.

And that avoids the resentment that you described earlier, if couples aren’t communicating and then the partner goes back to work and the mother is left alone with this baby and could have other kids at home and wants her old life back and is resentful that the partner even gets to go to work and listen to music and go out to lunch with colleagues, whatever it might be, missing that old life.  Even during just a short maternity leave.

Yeah, and I think that’s where your work as a doula and helping women, especially to get more sleep early on in the recovery – the sleep factor is a huge source of resentment for a lot of couples because the mom is traditionally the one waking up in the middle of the night, and if the male partner doesn’t have paternity leave, which is, again, another systemic problem in the US – there’s sort of an expectation that because the mom is staying home, that she should be the one getting up all throughout the night.  That deteriorates the quality of her recovery massively.  What I focus on in my program is, I have a whole module on sleep deprivation and the impact on not only your physical recovery but also your mental and hormonal recalibration.  Sleep is a huge factor, especially in that first four weeks.  It is critical that the mom gets enough sleep and that the partner steps up in those early days and weeks to allow the woman to recover and have constructive rest in that time.

Exactly, and as overnight and daytime postpartum doulas, we find that some partners have to go back two days after the birth, so they’re there in the hospital, but they’re back at work, working long hours, and then that depletion and exhaustion begins.  With some families, even coming in a couple nights a week can get them at least caught up a bit on rest, no matter how they feed their baby.  For exclusively breastfeeding moms, we can bring the baby to them or wake them and have them go into the nursery, so then they’re optimizing the rest they have.  The doula – or we also have newborn care specialists – do the diaper changes, the sleep shaping, burping baby, and you’re able to get support and ask questions about feeding.  The parent is awake at that time.  So it can be helpful.  But I have found that with some of the media attention, overnight doulas, newborn care specialists, night nannies – there have been a lot of negative public comments about getting help or investing in that much-needed support.

Right.  I mean, I am truly shocked that anyone would view that as negative because it is recovery needed for the woman, and I think that we’re recognizing the toll that pregnancy and labor and delivery takes on a woman’s body, obviously, but also mentally.  It’s critical to get that help, whether it’s from a partner or whether from a third party.  And I think that having a doula or a night nurse or somebody to come in and provide that peace of mind so that the mom can rest – again, there’s constructive rest, and that is the type of rest we want our moms to be able to get in this time.  But if it’s something that’s within the family’s means, I would ten out of ten recommend that people get a doula and support to provide them the opportunity to rest because that will not only help their recovery; it will help their relationship.  It will help how the mom is able to show up with her other kids as a mom, and it’s something that, I think when you look back, this time goes back so fast.  And again, the goal is not to survive it, right?  You want to actually enjoy that time.  And how can you enjoy it if you’re sleep deprived and you’re anxious?  You can’t.

Exactly.  Then it’s a blur, and all you have are the photos to look back and be like, all right, I got through it, as you mentioned before.  We should be embracing and celebrating this change and have the support we need and feel confident in asking for support.  But as you said, having those conversations early on with your partner and even with family members is so important to set expectations.  Otherwise, we can feel like we’re overwhelmed and drowning.

Absolutely, and the majority of women are overwhelmed and drowning, and it’s through no fault of their own.  One of the things that I talk a lot about in the program is that I went through this twice, feeling exactly that way, overwhelmed and drowning.  And I thought it was my fault.  I thought it was a reflection of me as a mother, or I just wasn’t the type of person to enjoy the newborn stage.  And through my research, again, I found the validation that a lot of women were set up to fail.  And this is not a reflection of me as a mom.  This is not a reflection of me as a woman.  This is a reflection of the lack of support that our society provides people, and we need to recognize that not only is it okay to get the support, but we deserve the support and we need the support.  So I’m really trying to, of course, address the immediate term of how to take care of yourself in postpartum and have a wonderful experience, but also, I feel like it’s honestly a movement of women feeling empowered to say that we deserve more and we need more, and this is again not a sign of weakness at all.  Really, it’s not.  We should feel truly empowered to get this help, and not to feel shame in telling other moms when we get this help.  I think that’s where social media for me is a slippery slope because you see people’s highlight reels on Instagram and Facebook and you think, oh, that woman has it all together.  She’s thriving in motherhood.  How is she doing it?  And it’s not the reality for the majority of women.  Or if they get help, they don’t want to publicly show that they’re getting help because they feel maybe ashamed that they’re getting help, and they really shouldn’t.

Right.  Not at all.  And I do appreciate – I feel like there are two sides to social media right now.  There’s the vulnerable side of really expressing that.  Some influencers, if you want to call them that, moms, have shared some of their struggles, and it has led to more openness about how the house doesn’t have to be perfect, and women showing their house with kids running around, and it being okay.  Or that you can have a bad day.  And then of course, there is that highlight reel, very filtered, Pinterest perfect, that is hard to live up to.  It can be overwhelming, but if you find the right accounts, then it can also make you feel like you’re not alone in the journey.  You just have to be connecting with the right people, I guess.

Absolutely.  And again, I talk a lot about tech usage in my content, and I recommend doing sort of an audit of who you’re following and just unfollowing anybody that brings you any type of comparison instinct.  I realized that there were certain people, when they would show up in my feed, I’d be like, oh, how do they do it?  And then I was like, wait a minute.  Let me have some awareness around how that’s coming up for me when I see this influencer or this person or this celebrity, and I’m just going to detox.  And I unfollowed probably about 100 or so accounts while I was pregnant because I realized it’s not serving me.  It’s not serving my child.  And those people will be there.  If I want to go back to them at another point in my life, they’ll be there.  So it’s a temporary thing, and I think that’s what pregnancy and postpartum is all about.  It’s recognizing that it’s a temporary thing, so what can you do?  It doesn’t need to be forever, but what can you do in this moment right now that will serve you, serve your child, serve your relationship, and set you up for what should be a happy and peaceful time of your life.

Exactly.  So Jess, what are your top tips for setting yourself up for postpartum success?

I would say starting in pregnancy is key.  A lot of people will take a wait and see approach, and they’ll say, you know, I’ll be fine.  And some people may be fine, and I hope truly that they are.  But again, we know from the data that unfortunately the majority of people are not.  So recognizing this is something to plan for.  I mean, how many women are planning their baby nursery, right?  You know you’re planning that.

Yes, and showers, and all the planning that goes into those.  People aren’t planning for birth and baby the way they are for a wedding, that’s for sure. 

Right.  For sure.  And I think that recognizing that having stuff and being organized – of course, that’s important.  Of course, that helps you feel calm.  But take care of your insides, your brain, your body, your spirit, with the same love and care that you’re preparing your external environment.  Right?  Imagine if we spent as much time thinking about ourself and our spirit as we’re transitioning to motherhood as we did planning the nursery.  It would be incredible.  I’d say that’s number one.

Great tip.

And number two, I would say, is getting help, whether it’s from a doula, whether it’s from somebody like me who’s working with you during pregnancy, whether it’s from the support of family of origin that you can tap into, friends, coworkers, whoever it is that you feel you can rely on, getting help and recognizing that you are not meant to do this alone.  That’s a big step, too, for me.  And I would say step three would be a very practical thing.  One of the things that I encourage all women to do is get paper plates or little things that make your life easier for the short term because we know that bending over, whether you’re pregnant or in your early postpartum days, is a way many women do too much, too fast.  Emptying the dishwasher, switching the laundry.  Little household things like that are adding up and actually creating longer term injuries for people.  So making temporary accommodations to not do so much in those early days.

Right.  It’s not just avoiding vacuuming and stairs.  There’s so much more to it, as you mentioned, with lifting.

Yeah.  And even if you have a toddler and you’re going to say, like, how could I possibly not lift my toddler?  It’s really challenging.  But having your toddler climb on the couch and give you a hug that way.  For me, bending over and picking up my big kids was really detrimental, so I would have them walk up the first few stairs, and I would say, that’s the bus stop.  I’ll meet you at the bus stop.  And they would jump into my arms that way so I wouldn’t have to bend over to pick them up.  I would say practical things like that, and of course, there’s a lot more on that front.

And then I think valuing your partner and using this as an opportunity for connection to talk about how your experience is different than their experience and opening up rather than keeping it all to yourself.  I think that’s the other part we didn’t totally go into when we talked about the partner aspect, but feeling like I’m going to keep it to myself.  I’m just going to struggle through it, or when my partner comes home from work, they had a tough day; I don’t want to burden them with my tough day.  And it’s fighting that urge to stay silent.  You know, really open up, and that’s where having scripts or language to use makes it a little easier for people to open up.  But we don’t want to keep these things to ourselves, especially in the vulnerable postpartum recovery stage.

Beautiful tips.  So how can our listeners and our Gold Coast clients work with you, Jess?

Yes!  I am on Instagram.  My account is @motherme.io.  And that is the same as my website, motherme.io.  And people can find me through Instagram and book a call with me, and I’m happy to discuss their individual circumstances and recommend sort of a pregnancy prep path.  I’d love to work with anyone who feels confident to say, I want more help and I need more help, and guess what?  I deserve it.  I really feel like that journey through recognizing help and feeling empowered – that’s what I love most about what I do.  So if you’re of that mindset, please reach out to me, and I’d be happy to chat with you.

Excellent.  As you mentioned, during pregnancy, it’s ideal to prepare early, similar with hiring a doula.  The earlier, the better; the more they’ll get out of your different programs.  But what if someone just had a baby and is feeling isolated?  What would it be like to work with you immediately postnatal?

Yes.  I have several women who actually DM me when they’re in the hospital.  And they’re like, I just had the baby.  I need help!  And absolutely, it’s never too late to raise your hand and say, I need help.  So definitely still reach out to me if you just had your baby and you want a little bit more support mentally, nutritionally, or guidance in your relationship and supporting this transition to mom and dad or from individuals to partners and parents.  It is absolutely always a good time, if you need help, to get help.

Excellent.  Well, I could talk to you forever.  We’ll have to reconnect again, Jess.  Thank you for sharing all of your tips and wisdom with our listeners.

Well, thank you for having me.  I could talk to you forever, too.  I’m so grateful that there are services like Gold Coast Doulas to really help women get that support they need because that is a huge part of the experience, so you’re doing wonderful work and we’ll continue talking.  Maybe we’ll do another session.  If the listeners have any more questions, we can go deeper on any of it.

That would be great.  I love everything you’re doing with Mother Me.  I will add you to our resource list.  It’s great to have another excellent app to use for preparation.

Thank you.  Thank you so much, Kristin!

Thanks, Jess!  Take care!

IMPORTANT LINKS

Mother Me

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother course

Kristin Revere and Alyssa Veneklase chatted about their upcoming book “Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby.” Their book will be released on Mother’s Day.  Look for it on Amazon and ask for it at your favorite bookstore.  The e-book and audiobook will be available in early June.    

Hello!  This is Kristin Revere, and I get to chat with Alyssa Veneklase today, all about our big reveal.  Welcome, Alyssa!

Hey!  It’s been a while.

It has.  So we’ve been working on a project for a couple of years.

Oh, my gosh.  Seems longer than that.

I think because the project started with our Becoming A Mother course during the early pandemic and sort of branched off from there, it does feel like a lot longer, but certainly similar concepts.  I feel like we’re giving birth to something, or about to, anyway.  So do you want to reveal what we’ve been working on?

Sure.  So we turned our course and all the course work and all the topics of the Becoming A Mother course into a book where Kristin has written the first half about pregnancy and planning for birth, and then I wrote the second half on planning postpartum and newborn care and sleep.  It’s really exciting.

It’s exactly the way we have our Becoming A Mother course.  I facilitate the first section, being the birth doula, and then you, being the sleep consultant, and both of us are postpartum doulas, you took on the feeding and newborn care.  So we divided the book up the same way, and the title is Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby.  We’ve been working with an amazing publisher, McLaren Press.  We did the – I want to call it exciting, but it was also nerve wracking – experience of recording an audiobook. 

Yeah, that was interesting.  That was a lot of talking in one session!  But we got it done.

We did, yeah, with the amazing Ben Zito of Centennial Sound.  Many different people involved in this project.  The book will be out on Mother’s Day.  We’re just in final layout stages with our publisher.

Yeah, it will be exciting to be able to offer it as a gift or a guide to friends and family, a guide for students or for any new parent.

The perfect baby shower gift.  We created it not just for first time moms and parents but also for seasoned moms, to understand all of their options when it comes to planning for birth and baby.

Right.  And I know in my sections, I talk about, how do you deal with feeding a newborn when you have a toddler who’s also vying for your attention, and then how do you deal with sleep when you have maybe a toddler who’s not sleeping and you have to feed a baby and get a baby to sleep and nap, and then also try to find time to sleep yourself?  It’s definitely – no matter how many kids, if it’s your first or your third, there’s definitely information in there.

Exactly.  So what is your favorite part of the book as far as the process?

Oh, the process of it?  Just getting thoughts down and writing.  I’m not best ad lib, so when I have an idea, I really like to think about it and change it and talk to other people about it.  So I think getting things down on paper is just good for my brain.  And then having you – when you have someone who can read it and edit it and maybe help you make changes.  And then obviously the sleep portion is my favorite.  That’s my favorite thing to talk about.

I figured sleep would be your favorite chapter, and certainly our most talked-about section in the Becoming course.  Whenever we have live calls or questions in our private community, it’s almost always about sleep, whether it’s infant sleep or toddlers.  And you deal with age 3 to 5, even with your online sleep class that you offer.  It is definitely the hot topic, and there’s so much more awareness now about options like sleep consultants and overnight postpartum doulas to help families when they don’t have support nearby.

Yeah, and I think the sleep chapter is interesting because it’s not a one size fits all, like here’s how you do it.  It’s more of an educational chapter on what is sleep and how does it work for your kid at different ages, and how can you fit that into your current schedule and your current parenting style.  It’s really about finding the best fit for you and your family and not just saying, oh, well, my cousin did it this way, or my best friend did it that way, and now I feel like a failure because it’s not working for me.  Really, really hammering down this idea that every family is different and you have to figure out what’s right for you, and if everyone’s happy, then you don’t need to change anything.

Right.  Because some of those online sleep courses and books on sleep are not customized to unique schedules and situations, and they don’t work.  And then people are frustrated.  So yours definitely has more of that customization and tips on how to make it work for your lifestyle.

What about you?  What’s your favorite part?

As far as the process, I think – I had started on a different book concept back in my early days as a doula, so taking some of those original concepts and what we gathered before we launched the course in serving women that were either Gold Coast clients or in different moms groups about what they wished they would have known about pregnancy, birth, and early parenting.  And I really liked getting those concepts and making it work into a book about other people’s thoughts on what they would want to know, thinking that those are the people that would buy this book for friends, or might be having another baby and want to be told the real truth, that maybe your friends are embarrassed to talk about or don’t think that it’s a normal thing to share.  I mean, we talk about leaking.  We talk about pelvic floor therapy and what is normal and cramping after birth and your legs shaking – so many things that aren’t discussed in your provider prenatal visits or in moms’ groups that I think are important to share.

Yeah, and your chapters do a good job of sharing stories from other people, stories from moms, different writeups from other people.  You give a lot of different perspectives.

Yeah, and that is also key.  I love reading different birth stories with different outcomes, and w share postpartum and sleep stories, all from our own clients and their voices, and we even have a pandemic chapter that covered what it was like to go through pregnancy, birth, and early parenting when things were shut down and maybe some of the options you had planned for weren’t available to you.  Those stories are very impactful, as well.

And hopefully we don’t have to go through that again!

Hopefully not!  But even RSV and flu season –

If we do, at least we’ve been through it.  We’ve learned a lot, and things could be different.

Exactly.  I would say as far as takeaways, hopefully, whether it’s the stories that resonate for you or knowing your options in assembling your dream team for birth and baby, there’s so many different options that aren’t commonly known, from car seat safety technicians to different types of mental health therapists to support group options and so on that aren’t something you’re going to even learn in a childbirth class.

So as far as resources, what was your favorite resource to compile in our final section?  For me, it would be – I know you had a lot of feeding and sleep-related websites and trusted resources or books that you would recommend.  And I would say for me, it was gathering some of the resources that our expert contributors had thought were valuable, so everything from Jenni Froment from VBAC Academy and her favorite VBAC resources to Cristina Stauffer, who is our mental health therapist expert.  She talked about different support groups that were available.  So I would say some of those outside sources and trusted resources that they use within their own fields.

Yeah, I mean, again, just with sleep, I’m always intrigued looking up sleep statistics and how important it is and how devastating it is when we don’t have it, for adults and kids.  It’s probably the most rigorous research that’s done for the book is the sleep related topics.

Agreed, yes.  In the citations, I would agree.  There’s a lot of sleep research.

Well, it is exciting, and we will be updating you when we have the exact release date for the e-book and audiobook.  It should be in early June.  The print version will be out on Mother’s Day.  We’ll update about any events coming up, whether virtual or in bookstores, and we can add that to the blog.  We will have the book available in so many different formats because everyone consumes content in a different way.  So it will be Kindle download ebook format to the paperback or the option to do an Audible download and be able to have the book consumed in that way, especially if you have a membership and you don’t even need to pay for the book.  It will just be part of your monthly membership. 

Any final tips for our listeners that you’d like to share on either the book writing process or your favorite nugget from the book?

No, I’m just excited to have it complete and then hopefully it becomes a really great resources for new parents.  I want it to be something that people put on their gift registries and give to anyone they find out is pregnant to read while they’re still pregnant.  I’m just really excited for that.

Yes.  Me, too.  I think it will be a great shower gift and something to pass down.  You can purchase it for relatives or friends.  You don’t have to be pregnant to purchase it.  And I would say my takeaway is, we talk about it not only in your section on postnatal prep and recovery and early parenting, but also in mine – really trusting your own instincts as a mother during pregnancy, during birth, and listen to your own instincts versus relying on the way, say, your mom birthed or your friend chose to sleep train her baby.  Follow your own compass, and obviously, use evidence based research.  But each pregnancy, birth, and parenting journey is unique, and we talk about that throughout the entire book.

Right.  I agree.

Well, thanks for chatting with me, and we will keep spreading the word about the book.  But this was our first reveal, so very exciting to share it with our Ask the Doulas audience.

Yeah.  We will keep everyone posted!

Sounds good!

IMPORTANT LINKS

Birth and postpartum support from Gold Coast Doulas

Becoming A Mother course