December 2022

Kristin chats with Dr. Karlie Causey, co-founder of a postpartum activewear brand called Jen & Keri, a sports chiropractor and certified strength and condition coach who is passionate about providing practical tools to moms and moms-to-be, helping them restore their bodies and continue exercising after their babies are born. You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome. You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting. Let’s chat!

Kristin: Hello, hello. This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas. I am so excited to chat with Dr. Karlie Causey today. Dr. Karlie is the co-founder of a postpartum activewear brand, a sport chiropractor, and a certified strength and conditioning coach who is passionate about providing practical tools to moms and moms-to-be, helping them restore their bodies and continue exercising after their babies are born. Welcome, Dr. Karlie!

Dr. Karlie: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Kristin: So excited to start chatting about your company, called Jen & Keri, and also really getting into how to build foundations to stay active in the postnatal time. I know that’s a big topic for a lot of our doula clients is really getting back into fitness.

Dr. Karlie: Yes, totally. And I’m just so excited to talk about it. I love, obviously, love to talk about this topic and try to give people the helpful, practical tools as far as staying active, getting active again, especially after that baby comes and joins your world.

Kristin: Exactly. Big change.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah.

Kristin: So let’s chat about Jen & Keri. So obviously you saw a need and you filled it?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. So after my first son – I have two boys, one who is just about three and one who is five months old. Right after my first son, I was – well, I will call it complaining. I was definitely complaining to one of my close friends and now business partner at Jen & Keri, Jess, and I was just telling her that, you know, I was really excited to get back into the gym. I have a postpartum rehab plan that I use with my patients. I’d done my plan, and I was like, okay, I’m getting back in the gym. But for me, I really felt like the nursing bras that were available were just not cutting it. I wanted something without clips, without Velcro, without the zipper. You know, all those things, while very useful, they just sort of scream nursing mom, which is wonderful, and I was so happy to be a nursing mom, but I wanted this hour where I could go to the gym or I could feel like myself, try to feel like an athlete again, and have it just be me and not focus on the baby while still being able to race home and feed my baby. So we started looking, and my friend Jess is just so good at research, and so she’s looking everywhere for me to try and help, and we couldn’t find anything. And so we sort of just started on our own, cutting up bras and seeing, what would it look like if we made it like this. And our goal was that it just would look like a regular sports bra. Yeah, and so that’s what we’ve come to now. We have a high impact sports bra that’s developed for nursing and pumping, which we also felt was really important to support moms who are pumping, as well, and give those options. And also fill that need of, you’re an athlete. You can still do these things that are important to you for your mental wellbeing, your physical wellbeing. And maybe that little bit of confidence, too, of feeling more like yourself helps you get back into the gym and helps you do some of these things that maybe you want to do and you’re feeling nervous or anxious or whatever the case might be.

Kristin: For sure. So not only are they stylish, but also functional, and as you said, it’s so important to have that normalcy and feel like your old self versus, again, thinking about your leaking breasts and all of the things and how it’s just not comfortable to get back into a workout routine.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. And we wanted something that was really for high impact. So the bra that we have now, it’s not designed to be worn all day. It is really trying to hold the girls down so you can run, so you bike, so you can jump, do all that kind of stuff. But you can size up. I’ll often wear a size bigger and kind of wear it all day, you know. And we’re working on another one that’s more of an all day bra. But that was the need was saw that was so – I’ll use the word urgent. It felt urgent to me. And yeah, we’ve had good feedback. And the other thing that was important to us is we make it in a small to a triple XL. We really wanted to feel inclusive of all sizes and really make sure people know that it doesn’t matter your shape or size or where you are in life. You still can be an athlete. You can still do those things that you want to do and support women of every size.

Kristin: I love it. And then I saw on your website that you accept most health savings and flex spending, so that’s awesome!

Dr. Karlie: I’m a chiropractor, too, and so when we were researching, I was like, wait, you can use health savings to come see me. I bet you can use it for our bra, and turns out you can. Yeah, all you do is enter it. It’s pretty easy. Just enter is as a credit card. We felt like that was important, too, to just try to help out as much as we can. You’re buying so much stuff, you know, when you have a new baby and it just feels never ending, so that’s another piece. Okay, if we’re going to make this bra, we want to make it feel like you can wear it even after you’re done nursing. So we have some friends – it’s funny. When we were making the bra, you know, and kind of testing different models and stuff, we had some friends try it on and play beach volleyball in it, who are actually not moms, and they were sort of confused about – they just thought it was a regular bra. They didn’t know it was a nursing bra, and we were like, yes. That’s exactly what we want. We want you to not know. You don’t know you just said the right thing, you know?

Kristin: Yes. I love it. So do you ever get moms who want to use the bra in labor? I have this issue with my birth doulas clients where they prefer to wear a sports bra, but them I’m talking to them about the fact that it might need to get cut off, and you don’t want to lose that great bra that you had at one point. So have you thought about that labor time of having something that’s, again, not necessarily high impact, or do people use those bras for different reasons, whether it’s a home birth or in the hospital and just wanting to have something that’s not necessarily a nursing bra yet but give support during labor?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, that’s so funny. I did that exact thing when I was having my first son. I had this bra, and my midwife was a really good friend of mine. She’s like, I think we need to cut this off. I was like, no, we have to save it. But yeah, we’re working on just – we call it a no-impact bra, and it’s sort of for that purpose, right? You can just, like, wear it any time. It’s just sort of holding things in place. We haven’t launched that yet, but that’s also in the works, and that would be more of a fit for that kind of thing. And I think so often women have the idea of that and then I think just end up with nothing, no bra on.

Kristin: Yep. That happens.

Dr. Karlie: So yeah, we thought of some of those things, and we’re like, okay, we have all these things we want to develop, so they’re in the works, but everything takes more time and more money than you want, so we’re working on it.

Kristin: Yes, exactly. So I’d love to hear your tips, Dr. Karlie – I know you have custom plans for your patients, but what is your advice for our listeners who are prepping for that postnatal recovery time and want to get back, whether it’s running or spinning or Pilates, whatever it might be, but to get into some sort of routine?

Dr. Karlie: Yes. Okay, great question. So there’s a couple of suggestions I always give, and one is, even if you have multiple kids, but especially if you’re a first-time mom, I always recommend to start this plan before the baby comes. Like, you know, plan out, okay, who is my pelvic floor PT going to be. Do I have a sports chiropractor? You know, all these things. Same as with, like, planning your doula, you know, you just want to have these things in place because once the baby comes, your brain is mush and life is so different, and you forget all these things that you had planned. But if you already have them set in motion, then I find women are much more successful in general after giving birth. So that’s one. Two is that I always recommend not waiting until six weeks to start something. So, obviously, that doesn’t mean you’re jumping into working out immediately after birth, but you can start with breathing exercises as early as in the hospital bed. And what we see is that during pregnancy, that diaphragm just gets so crammed up, and we really lose a lot of the endurance of it, and so even just starting some deep belly breathing and trying to see, okay, can I start to feel my transverse abdominis engage, you know, within a few days of giving birth? I have women try – the cues I like to use are, you know, you take your breath in, and then as you breathe out, you try to just lightly pull the two hip bones together in front, you know, and that will sort of start to engage that big transverse abdominis, that big flat abdominal muscle that gets so stretched out during pregnancy. It’s really important to stabilizing our core. So starting on some simple breathing exercises. I actually made – it’s called a postpartum restoration plan a few years ago, and I started using it with my patients, and it’s now available online. When COVID hit, so many people weren’t coming into the office, so I had to try to figure out a way to give people the rehab they needed when they couldn’t come and see me. And it’s an eight-week plan, and basically it just starts with breathing exercises, with bracing, with some really simple diastasis recti healing exercises and then progresses from there. So I always like to recommend that people either find a plan similar to that or they find a PT, like I said, or a postpartum exercise specialist to work with, someone that can just help, even if it’s not like a big, huge plan, someone that can give some guidance and just set them in the right direction of, here’s where you start. Where do you want to go? Let’s help you build some steps in between.

Hey, Alyssa here. I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming. Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between. You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood. You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more. You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most. And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls. If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com. We’d love to see you there.

Kristin: And do you have a different plan for your patients who have surgical births or any other medical conditions? I’m sure it’s adapted based on the individual’s needs?

Dr. Karlie: Yes. My second son was breech, and try as we might, every single thing that you can think of, natural, medical – we tried two fail versions. The guy would just not flip.

Kristin: He was there for a reason. We just don’t know what it was.

Dr. Karlie: Totally. I know. And so I am actually really grateful for that now, as much as I didn’t want to have a C-section. I really wanted to try and have an unmedicated birth and all this stuff, but I’m so grateful for it now because I really understand both sides of the story, both the vaginal birth and C-section. So I’m working on right now actually making the modifications because I don’t think I really could have – you know, as much education as we have and as much research, until I think sometimes you go through something, then you really, really understand how to change things for people you’re helping. So I’m going through right now and making some of the modifications. Like, for example, in my just regular plan, there’s some supermans where you’re laying on your stomach trying to engage the low back muscles, which is a super important part of our core. But I could not do that for the life of me six weeks. There’s a big surgical scar. So that one is a little bit obvious, but there are some more that are not quite as obvious that I’m grateful now that I know and I realize and I’m kind of making those changes. But I’ve had a few people who’ve had C-sections just kind of work with me. They tell me that, hey, I want to do this plan, but I had a C-section or had some other – you know, a little bit more traumatic tearing, that kind of thing, and then I usually just can email back and forth with them or jump on a call and try to help them that way for now.

Kristin: That makes sense. So how can our listeners work with you to come up with a plan or download a plan? How does that work outside of a course in your online store?

Dr. Karlie: I try to post stuff on Instagram as much as possible. It’s less right now with a little baby. You know, trying to really soak in the baby snuggles and all that stuff. But yeah, my plan is available online, and then people can reach out, again, of course, on Instagram either at Jen & Keri or Dr. Karlie, and I’m always happy also to help refer. I have a lot of friends and colleagues in different states, both physical therapists and chiropractors and strength coaches who work with women, so I’m always happy to help people make connections, too.

Kristin: Wherever they live. I love that. And so I’m all on board with coming up with a plan in advance, because otherwise it just doesn’t happen, and it can be overwhelming whether it’s baby number one or baby number five. So what are your tips, Dr. Karlie, on really asking for help, whether it’s the partner or family or hired care, a nanny, to really carve out that time that is so important?

Dr. Karlie: I think there’s a few things to think about, and one is sort of knowing yourself and how you operate best. So if you’re the type of person who is used to having that hour and a half, whatever it is, three, four, five days a week that you’re working out, then maybe what’s best for you is to set aside 20 to 30 minutes to do your rehab, to work on your breathing, to really get in touch with your body again because as you know, it just feels so foreign once the baby is out. You know, now you have this whole new body that you didn’t have before. It’s not the body you had while you were pregnant. I just even personally remember feeling like, whoa, what – you know, how do I move this thing? And so just trying to figure out, okay, do I like to have time set aside for myself? If so, can I talk to my partner and plan that out? You know, and it’s not perfect, but if you make that plan, then at least you kind of set that standard, and I think explaining to your partner the importance of it and why is also really helpful. Or are you the kind of person who that’s just too overwhelming, and what would be better for you is, here’s three or four exercises. You’re going to do them in five minute increments throughout the day. And I like the term habit stacking, which comes from the book Atomic Habits, if you’ve read that. I love that book.

Kristin: Oh, yes. It’s a great book.

Dr. Karlie: But I use that with my patients a lot because – well, I always joke, don’t stack anything to brushing your teeth when you’re a new mom because you might forget and it might not happen in those first couple weeks. But every time you nurse and then, let’s say, if you hand the baby to your baby to burp them, then you do a set of breathing exercises. Or every time you go to the bathroom, you do a set of five squats. If that’s more kind of congruent with how you are most successful, then make that plan and just come up with those exercises or get on board with someone who can help you with that and then sort of make your plan that way. But I think learning about how you are going to be most successful and then building from there is best, rather than trying to squeeze yourself in some other kind of box that maybe isn’t the most successful for you.

Kristin: That makes sense. And I think again, like, some people just don’t want to ask for help, or they just – they’ve moved to a new area and don’t have it and can’t afford to hire out, so I love having those five minutes. Are there any – as far as that six-week appointment, what are the key physical activities that people need to get that permission from their OB or midwife to engage in other than, obviously, running and things like that, that are more high impact?

Dr. Karlie: Right, yeah. So that six-week appointment can just be so helpful or so useless, you know, just depending on where you are and who you see and that sort of thing. I’ve had patients where they just got no guidance. They just basically like, six weeks, you’re cleared. And I think there just has to be some more education around, like, what that means, what you’re actually cleared for, whether it’s working with someone like me or someone like you or a midwife. I don’t know. There has to be – I feel like it’s so much better when people can get a little more guidance. So what I like to tell people is, if you’re doing your breathing, you’re doing your bracing – I like people to remember that the glutes and the low back are part of the core, and the glutes are connected to the pelvic floor, right? So it’s really important to start just some light exercises that are safe, like glute bridges, you know, whether you’re holding those or kind of doing reps. Squats, even like hip hinges or good mornings with just a band, something that’s working the posterior chain. Even just walking hills is an easy one that I tell moms they can start with if they want. If they’re out walking, that’s one good one that can get the heart rate up a little bit, and that really works the posterior chain, so they’re sort of getting a two for one there, which is good, and just starting some of that basic rehab. And then after the six weeks, sort of being a little more intentional about, okay, what is it that you want to get back to? Is it weightlifting? Then we need to start off with a blank barbell and a PVC pipe and starting slow. Or is it running? We need to make sure that you can jump on one foot for a minute on both sides for a certain amount of time. That sort of thing. And just what are those things that you want to work back into, and it’s all based on the person and what their goals are.

Kristin: That makes sense. And certainly – I love that you brought up pelvic floor therapists earlier and physical therapy. So that is something that is getting brought up more and more at those six week appointments, so it’s not just doulas talking about those options, so I’m very thankful for that.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, and it’s so funny because I think, you know, back in the day, chiropractors and physical therapists were sort of a little more at each other and didn’t work together as well in some cases, and in my world, it’s not like that at all anymore. I work really closely with a lot of great physical therapists and a lot of great pelvic floor physical therapists, and I think we can work so well together. And the thing I think is most unfortunate is that it’s not as it is in some countries sort of required, you know, as part of the postpartum birth process. In other countries, you just like straightaway see a pelvic floor physical therapist. And they can help you see, okay, are things fine and you’re progressing just normally? Are things too tight? Are things – you know, like, what’s going on? How’s the alignment of your pelvis? And so yeah, we can work together so well. So I always recommend my patients – even if they’re like, I have no problems; no leaking, no pain, no nothing. I’m great. I’m like, just go for one visit then to a pelvic floor physical therapist. Just let them do a quick check over, and let them tell you that you’re all good. You know, and in most cases, they’re so busy that if you’re good, they’ll get you out of their office. They’re not trying to keep you there, you know. So I think it’s just – it can be really helpful for people to go that route, too, and know that, like, not all those visits are internal exams. They can do external, and there’s a lot of conversation around that. They’re not just like jumping right in, you know?

Kristin: Exactly. And I’m sure as a sports chiropractor, you’re also giving referrals to pediatric chiropractors if they’re struggling with latch or colic or other issues.

Dr. Karlie: Totally, yeah. Constipation is a big one. And even birth trauma because the way that babies come out of the body is pretty traumatic, as you know. So yeah, most babies can benefit also from a check, so I work closely with those docs, too. They’re wonderful.

Kristin: Great resource. So any final tips for our listeners and doula clients?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah. I think one thing that I always like to stress is even though I say you don’t need to wait until six weeks to be doing breathing and light rehab stuff, I always make sure people know that the slower you start off, the better, as far as those bigger movements and jumping back into maybe stuff that you were doing before you were pregnant. Slow and steady wins the race, and I always just make sure I stress that. It sometimes feels so boring to do the rehab work, the breathing, this kind of stuff first, but when you build that foundation and then you slowly ease back into whatever activities it is that you love, that’s where success really comes and where you make sure that you don’t cause problems down the road that are going to inhibit you getting back to the gym and getting back to even just running around with your kids, you know? So slow and steady wins the race, and I’ve never really heard anyone say, oh, I wish I would have started running sooner. Right? But I’ve heard many people say, oh, I started running too soon and I wish I would have waited. So that’s one tip that I think is definitely worth putting out there.

Kristin: Thank you, Dr. Karlie. So outside of your website and Jen & Keri, you had mentioned, of course, Instagram, and that’s also @jenandkeri, but you’re on a couple other social media networks?

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, we’re on Facebook, too, of course. My own personal Instagram is @drkarlie. I guess we’re on TikTok, too, but I am just like – I don’t really know how TikTok works.

Kristin: Same.

Dr. Karlie: My partner does that. But we’re there, and we’re always happy – you know, if you have a question or are looking for a provider or even have some feedback, if you have the bra – we’re always looking for feedback. You know, we’re a small company, and we really created this bra to empower women. It’s our small little corner of the world to help people get back to doing what they love to do and to tell them, like, hey, our motto is every mom is an athlete, and that means a couple of things to us. It means, one, the things that you do as a mom are very athletic, so even if you don’t consider yourself an athlete, you know, you lower the baby into a crib. Well, that’s a hip hinge or a deadlift. You pick the baby’s car seat up and put it into the car. That’s a press. So just sort of honoring all the athletic things that moms do all day long. And then secondly it’s saying, you know, you can be that athlete again if you want, and we’re here to support you in doing that.

Kristin: Beautiful. Yeah, and I agree. I mean, even looking at birth, it can be an athletic event.

Dr. Karlie: Oh, my gosh, the most athletic event, arguably, right, that most of us will ever do!

Kristin: Exactly. Yeah, I compare it to training both mentally and physically the way that athletes prepare. Doing prenatal visits and supporting our clients is really getting into that mind-body connection that athletes have, so I love your slogan of every mom is an athlete. It’s beautiful.

Dr. Karlie: Thank you.

Kristin: Well, thank you so much for your time and your amazing tips, Dr. Karlie. I hope we can chat again soon. We’ll keep an eye on your updates bras as you release more options.

Dr. Karlie: Yeah, thank you. We’re very excited.

Kristin: And I will definitely share Jen & Keri with not only our doula clients but also our Becoming a Mother students.

Dr. Karlie: Awesome. Great.

Kristin: Thank you again!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review. Thank you! Remember, these moments are golden.

 

We talk with Estelle Giraud, CEO and co-founder of Trellis Health, about navigating healthcare systems during pregnancy.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Estelle Giraud today.  Estelle is the co-founder of Trellis Health, which is an online platform that takes the frustration and anxiety out of coordinating and curating pre- and postnatal health.  Estelle is also a mother herself.  So navigating the healthcare system is a personal passion of hers, as well.  So welcome, Estelle!

Estelle:  Thank you so much!  It’s great to be here.

Kristin:  I would love to hear a bit about your journey as a mother and then what led you again to getting into technology in the healthcare space.

Estelle:  Yeah.  So I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve worked my entire career in healthcare in one way or another, in human health.  At the time, kind of prenatal and throughout the early part of my pregnancy, I was working for a corporate company in the medical and healthcare space, and I was really focused on precision medicine and kind of how do we make medicine better.  So it’s always been in the back of my brain, and a big part of that was focused on cancer patients and, you know, really sick – these really kind of catastrophic diseases that we face.  I didn’t think about parenthood or motherhood or really anything in that journey, and I’ll say with my motherhood journey, I am an IVF mum.  I’m really open about that.  It was not an easy or a fast IVF.  We were doing it for other reasons.  I went into thinking, I’m in my early 30s.  I have no kind of infertility issues.  This is going to be really straightforward.  I’m one of the lucky statistics.  And that obviously wasn’t the case, and we did three cycles and multiple egg retrievals.  I had a couple of pregnancies that didn’t come to term that I lost the children.  I lost the babies during pregnancy.  I mean, this is a quick sidebar.  I think I didn’t speak about these things, but as I’m speaking about them now, I realize how common this is and how quiet we stay as women generally, and I think we miss out on a lot of support for each other to just understand and be there and say, you know what, I experienced this as well.  It’s really, really hard.

Kristin:  Absolutely.  We don’t talk about it enough.  I agree.

Estelle:  We don’t talk about it enough.  So, you know, I went through this process, and then I became pregnant with my son.  And, you know, I’m sure we could talk about just what IVF looks like in terms of early pregnancy, but some of the things around injections and progesterone injections – everything was just mind blowing to me.  But then I made it into – I think I was about 20 weeks when I started to feel really kind of comfortable in that pregnancy, and I was like, oh, I can breathe out.  I’m like, it’s fine now.  I’m – you know, I’m pregnant.  It all – you know, I don’t have to – there’s nothing really that can, like, happen at this point.  And I don’t say any of this to kind of scare your listeners or anything like that.  It’s just about, you know, education.  All the different journeys that motherhood can take, and to be secure and empowered in that, in your journey.  It’s nobody else’s, but this was my journey.  And so I had a couple of months, but then I had prenatal hypertension, and I was a high risk pregnancy, so I had a lot of appointments.  I was monitoring my blood pressure.  I was monitoring all of these symptoms.  I was at risk for preeclampsia.  And I ended up getting postpartum preeclampsia.  Ended up back in the hospital, actually in the same delivery ward with the same nurse in the same room that I had my son.  The nurse was like, what are you doing?  Why are you back here?  But I was back in hospital at day seven after he was born.  So I had a newborn, and it was just – you know, the experience wasn’t what I expected all around, but one of the things that I really took away from that is how much women take responsibility for their health throughout this journey.  And as a first time mum, you know, you think that it’s all this completely standardized process, and then when you get into it, you realize that it’s not, and you have a lot of decision-making power, and you have a lot of kind of – you take responsibility for your health like you never have before, but at the same time, our medical system – everything about it isn’t really set up to support women easily and kind of, you know, take away some of that anxiety, support them in their choices, support them in understanding their health, giving them digital tools to help them manage their health.  You know, I had hypertension.  I was measuring my blood pressure three times a day.  And I had it in an Apple note in my phone so I would, you know, make note of the time and what the measurement was and take that into my doctor’s appointment every week, and I had ten minutes with the doctor.  And the question always was, you know, how are you feeling?  What should I know about?  And I’m trying to, like, communicate everything in ten minutes and be really efficient about it, make sure that I don’t miss anything.

Kristin:  Yeah, it’s not enough time at all.

Estelle:  It’s not enough time, and, you know, they want to be helpful.  They want to make sure that they’re not missing anything.  But we don’t have – you know, it’s not like 50 years ago or decades ago when we had family doctors and this kind of really supported generational care.  I’ve lived in multiple states.  I’m in Seattle now, but I moved here just a couple of years before I was pregnant, and so I’d never seen these doctors before.  They didn’t have my history.  It’s just a lot of pressure to put on a new relationship, and so to cut some of the story out but to sum it up, what I’m really committed to now with Trellis Health is this idea of, can we support women in this journey with their own personal health information, with everything about their health history and their choices and goals and give them the tools to navigate that journey with ease.  And so things like blood pressure monitoring for anybody at risk or suffering hypertension, we have a digital app.  We kind of pre-program in all the reminders that you would need to manage your health with prompts.  You can input measurements directly into the app.  And we summarize all of that into, like, a snapshot of your health that you can then take into your doctor for that appointment.  You can make note of questions that you have.  But they have all of your lab history and blood pressure readings for the last week or two weeks or however long it’s been, symptoms, kind of everything summarized in one sheet that you can both look at and kind of have a real conversation about your health in a very efficient way.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.  And I’m sure if any of our listeners are working with, say, a homebirth midwife, they could also, of course, you know, share that information regardless of who the provider is.

Estelle:  Exactly.  I’m really a strong proponent of the midwife.  I mean, anybody in that care team, and even partners, as well.  There’s support for women around their health and around pregnancy, like being able to communicate that story with people around you that are helping you manage your health.

Kristin:  I’m all about that empowerment.  We have a program at one of the hospitals in my area called the Centering for Pregnancy Model, and they do some of their own assessments and meet together weekly and really take charge of their pregnancy, and then also have that support combined in one.  So I love everything you’re doing.

Estelle:  I think it’s such – I mean, I get really riled up about this.  Like, women’s health has been overlooked.  I’m a woman in tech.  I’m building a software company.  And it took me until I was pregnant to realize the gap here.  And why in this age with all the solutions that we have is this still overlooked?  Women’s health is such an important area, and particularly around pregnancy, we have to do better.

Kristin:  Yeah.  And women are dying in childbirth.  It shouldn’t happen.

Estelle:  Exactly.  These are preventable deaths.  I’m sure you know this and I’m sure your listeners know this, as well, but the US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world.  We’re trying to change those statistics and giving women the tools to really advocate for and communicate their own health, and everybody, like regardless of access to the top holistic, women’s health, maternal care facilities in the country, like, this should be available to every woman.

Kristin:  Right.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  I totally agree, and having had preeclampsia myself and bedrest and an induction, I can totally understand, you know, that need for really understanding how you can converse with your healthcare team and really advocate for yourself early on because I was overwhelmed.  And then as you had mentioned, eclampsia after delivery and so on.  So many things get missed.  It’s not just the pregnancy complications, but as you had mentioned in your own story, it’s some of the postnatal and hemorrhaging, eclampsia.  Really being able to have that self-assessment and understand your own personal healthcare history and story.  So knowing when things might be off or wrong rather than waiting for that six-week appointment.

Estelle:  We spoke to so many women – you know, user interviews – and it was such a common theme that you – you know, for your entire pregnancy, you have so much focus on you and your health.  You know, people will give you a seat to sit down or you’ve got these appointments, in the end particularly, like every couple of days, every week.  And then the baby is born, and in a lot of cases, whether that’s a natural delivery or a C-section or whatever that looks like, it’s a huge experience.  And from a physical, emotional, mental, everything, and then you don’t have a follow up for six weeks and you’re taking care of another human around the clock.  It’s just – you know, we’re also really kind of focused on that early postpartum period.  Like, how do we check in with women?  How do we make sure they have the right tools again to easily manage their health, whether that’s pain medication or other medications that they’re on?  When I was leaving the hospital, my husband pre-programmed in my calendar all the whole schedule of all of my medications for the next two weeks.  You know, I had blood pressure medications.  I had painkillers because I had a C-section.  I had all these different things.  And I just couldn’t do it.  But he – like, I didn’t even know what time of day it was, but I would just get a ping on my phone.  It’s time to take this medication.  I’m like, oh, this is convenient.  This is helpful.  But he had to spend, you know, a couple of hours manually doing that.  I was like, why can’t we have a digital tool that helps do this for parents?

Kristin:  Yeah.  That’s amazing.  So how – you know, there are so few women in tech.  How did you make this happen?  Bring the dream to reality.

Estelle:  I’m sure we could spend a whole podcast talking about this.  I’m mission driven to found it.  Like, I couldn’t do this.  I think there’s such strength that you have if you recognize, and especially if you’ve lived through a problem yourself as a founder, and you’re like, the world needs this, and I have this skill set, and I have the experience to be able to build this.  There’s this responsible that comes with that, and it’s something that drives me to be able to do it.  When I left my corporate job and – you know, we haven’t really spoken about it, but the vision for Trellis Health is beyond pregnancy and even women.  We see it evolving into a family health platform that houses all of your family’s health records.  You know, health is such a generational thing.  And for a lot of women, post-pregnancy, you are managing the health of that child.  Women are the chief medical officers typically of their family.  You know, you’re making the decisions around healthcare or you’re in those early appointments.  You’re responsible for feeding and sleeping, a lot of these things.  And, you know, partners of course are part of that, but it’s a transition from pregnancy that often doesn’t kind of fully go away.  And so we see Trellis Health evolving into tools for women to manage the health of their children; partners on the platform, as well, and then elderly parents as they age.  You get kind of sandwiched into this health management role as a woman, and you’ve got a corporate job.  You’ve got a life.  You’ve got all of these other things that you need to be able to do with your time.  Like, let’s just make that easier and connected and build this generational resource that you can then kind of pass down to your children.  They can see your health history, risk factors, really help them manage their health for the rest of their life, as well.  This goes all the back to my genetics background.  You know, I see the generational nature of health and how we can develop a better understanding of what contributes to disease through really connected family generational information.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  And oftentimes we don’t know our own family history.  We get asked, you know, those questions at doctor visits, but we don’t always have the answers.

Estelle:  Yeah.  And so this is something that I saw when I was in my corporate job, and I see the way the medical industry is evolving, you know, indirectly, as well.  We just have a data problem in healthcare.  Your data is all over the place.  And this is not – this is such an obvious take in healthcare, but nobody has been able to fix it.  And I think part of that is missing the right value proposition for the right customer at the right time, and my experience through pregnancy made that crystal clear to me, that this is a missed opportunity for women.  And yeah, nobody was building that.  So I’ll say it’s not easy.  It’s a process.  Everything’s a process.  And we’re small.  We’re building.  I have a great team of people that are really committed to this mission with me.  I can talk about kind of what it takes as a female in tech, you know, VC-funded and the way that our funding system works and some of the biases that exist against women founders, but at the end of the day, wanting to change those statistics, as well.

Kristin:  I mean, it’s honestly just tackling two huge problems in society in one business, so I love it.  Yes, so walk me through how our listeners would be able to join the platform, how affordable is this.  I’m thinking it’s almost like having concierge medicine but in the tech space.

Estelle:  So we are in private beta right now, and I say private because we’re not – you know, this isn’t something that you’ll find on Google ads.  But we are still open, and so if any of your listeners are currently pregnant and want to be a part of our beta program, we’re offering that free of charge for two years, and so they can sign up on our website.  There’s a short form that they fill out.  We will be in touch with them, get them set up.  We’re offering a white glove onboarding for all the people who are part of our beta.  And then what I will say is the experience that we’re trying to enable is that this is as frictionless as possible.  So for anybody that maybe has thought about health records before – I regularly come across people who think they have to call their doctors and get all these faxed medical records or input in a lot of data themselves.  One of the key differences with what we’re able to build today is that we can do a lot of that completely frictionless.  So we verify people’s identity.  We have a super secure system.  We’re a HIPAA-covered entity.  So we have this security system that enables us to verify identities and then connect medical records in the back end so users don’t have to kind of do that heavy lifting themselves.  You’ve got other things that you want to do with your time right now.  And then the beta, the one ask that we have is that people would be willing to give us feedback.  We’re making this product for women and for this experience, and so any and all feedback, we’re really kind of leaning into.  So if people are really kind of passionate about this space or even just interested in and want to test it out, please get in touch.  We would love to chat with you.  In terms of moving forward, we’re priced at $99 a year.

Kristin:  Very affordable.

Estelle:  Right.  We’re still investigating, but I have a goal that we will be able to be covered under HSA and FSA accounts, as well.

Kristin:  Makes perfect sense that it should be covered.

Estelle:  Yes.

Kristin:  I love it.  So you’re also on other social media channels, correct, Estelle?

Estelle:  Yes, that’s correct.  And I am personally on – you know, we were talking about women in tech.  I want to be a voice for other women.  When I was pregnant and I was in the early days of founding Trellis Health, I was constantly looking for role models.

Kristin:  Of course.

Estelle: I would spend hours on Google.  Where is the pregnancy or founding a tech company – how do I know that I can do this?  And there wasn’t a lot of – you know, I really struggled to find examples of those women.  And so I am on Twitter.  I’m on LinkedIn.  I’d love to connect with anybody, particularly other women if they’re interested in the story.  I talk about, you know, just what it means to be a female founder and to build a company in software and being a mother at the same time.  So yeah, happy to connect with people there.

Kristin:  You are so inspiring.  Thank you for sharing your story, Estelle, and for the work you’re doing.  You’re definitely going to be changing so many lives for the better, and I will share the information about your beta with my doula clients and Becoming a Mother students, and of course, our listeners.

Estelle:  Thank you so much!

Kristin:  Thank you!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

We talk with Cara Tyrrell about using sign language with newborns, infants, and toddlers.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts. Be sure to listen to find out how to get a free download on the benefits of ASL for your little ones!

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello!  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am so excited to chat with Cara Tyrrell today.  Cara has a bachelor’s degree in ASL and linguistics and a master’s degree in education.  She’s a trained early childhood teacher and early years caregiver, continuing education consultant, and a parent coach.  In her preschool and kindergarten classrooms, Cara identified a pattern of underdeveloped skill sets in her students indicating a lack of overall readiness to learn.  After years of hearing parents say, “I’m so glad you’re their first teacher,” she realized she wasn’t.  The solutions to arming preschoolers and kindergarteners with comprehensive readiness skills for finding success in school started with these same parents in the family home at birth.  This led her to professionally pivot.  She left the classroom to test her earliest years methodology as a full service nanny, serving a family from the birth of their child until they entered a traditional school setting.  Years of implementing strategies, systems, and scripts confirmed her hypotheses.  All children, regardless of their birth origin or natural characteristics, can thrive as early learners in the Core4 readiness areas when parents and caregivers create the home environment with intention.  So early in the onset of the COVID pandemic, Cara felt called to bring the Core4 methodology for raising truly world-ready kids to the world to arm proactive parents with the tools they want and need to raise happy, healthy, successful kids.  Through Core4 Parenting, Cara is shifting the focus.  Parenting personal development meets early childhood education.  She coined the phrases “parenting GPS” and teaches how to write a personalized parenting mission statement as a cornerstone of the Core4 methodology serving the invisible learning years from birth to age 5.  Welcome, Cara!

Cara:  Thank you!  So glad to be here and thanks for that beautiful introduction.

Kristin:  What an amazing journey from teacher to really testing out your methodology as a nanny and creating this much-needed program during the pandemic when parents were overwhelmed and isolated.

Cara:  You know, it was like coming home for me because I started my journey to serving little people as a nanny when I was a teenager and then a young adult and moved into the teaching space and so coming back to nannying with an agenda, if you will, felt really right, and it was an amazing experience being with little people again in a different time period because clearly, it was 20 years later since I had first become a nanny.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.  So our topic today, although I think I could speak with you about so many different topics, is focused on the child’s first communication, so using sign to speak and ASL classes that you offer for newborn, infant, and toddler parents.

Cara:  Yes.  As you mentioned, I do have a degree in linguistics and in American Sign Language, so for me, this is a real passion point, and the first thing that I always want parents to understand is that communication is not language.  And language is not communication.  They are uniquely different in many ways because your baby communicates with you from the minute that they’re born.  They’re just not using words.

Kristin:  Yes.  So true.  So I know I used a bit of baby sign and took classes with my first child, and it was very helpful, especially with eating communication.  Any tips on really how to find the right program, how families can begin implementing at a very early age some of the ASL techniques?

Cara:  Yes, absolutely.  What’s important to understand is that the earlier you start, the better, but the earlier you start, the longer you will wait to see your child start to produce signs on their own.  It’s one of those “believe it to see it.”  We know our kids are going to talk someday.  We believe it.  But we know we have to wait a really long time for that to happen.  Your baby’s brain is making neurological connections, is creating those language-based pathways from birth, and you are their language source.  You are creating the dictionary from which they will pull from when they have the ability in their physiological body and brain and the muscle motor control in their tongue to start communicating back with you.  So the earlier you start, the bigger and the more complex and rich that dictionary is going to be.  So I highly recommend that parents take my Sign to Speak: The Communication Bridge Course when they’re still pregnant, and start using it immediately when their baby is born.  Obviously, not everybody finds me or my programming that early, and that’s okay, too, because the beautiful part of this is that the human body, your baby’s body, will be ready to produce signs with their hands long before they will be ready to produce words with their mouth.  Right?  Gross motor skills come first.  The moving of their arms up so that you know they want you to pick them up; the index finger pointing when they see something new so you know they want you to tell them what that object is.  These are gross motor movements with their hands and bodies that are communicating in a pre-language way.

Kristin:  And with that delay, their speech, then, as far as their first words, if they’re used to signing and getting, you know, exactly what they need through that early communication, is there any delay in speech if they’re able to express themselves through sign?

Cara:  I am so glad you asked that question because it is the top concern that parents have, and the answer is no.  There is definitely no delay.  The more language inputs, the better in those early years when their brain is developing, and actually, the answer is it helps their speech become a part of their natural life if not on time, even earlier than that typical milestone would have been reached.  And the reason is – well, I guess it’s how you use it, right?  We need to know as parents why we’re choosing to use signs with our babies.  And in my course, I break it down into three groups on purpose.  The first are basic needs, our basic survival needs.  And the next are health, hygiene, and safety signs because after you have a newborn, you now have an infant that is going to be exploring their world a little bit, and your job is to keep them healthy, safe, and clean with hygiene, and then after you have an infant, you have this pre-toddler or you have this toddler who is exploring the world even more with their bodies and now their brains, and now they have opinions and wants and needs and desires.  And so the third group of signs that we tackle in the course are those so you can start building a choice-making relationship with your child inside your home.  So not only doesn’t delay their speech, it encourages it because the arc of the course is such that I’m encouraging you to say the spoken word as you produce the sign, and when you start to see your child try that – I have this cool little video montage that shows a 10-month old signing, exclusively signing, “more.”  And then a 14-month old saying “mu-mu-mu-mu” as they sign “more,” and then an 18-month old who has completely dropped the sign and is just communicating with you.  “More, please.”

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  And I remember my daughter doing some of that.  So she was signing and trying to attempt her first words.  That makes complete sense.  So ideally, you would take the course during pregnancy, and then with these different stages, of course you would be able to refer and refresh your memory.  So you have that extra time during pregnancy to really absorb versus being so focused on that early parenting and postnatal recovery.  So I love that they can reference it versus taking an in-person class and then forgetting or referring to books or handouts.  Really having those videos to accompany as time goes on and our memories are short, so we can refer to that toddler stage and how to basically enhance skills that their child already has from the earlier portion of your course.

Cara:  Absolutely.  And yes, it is yours for life.  You have lifetime access.  You go in there and grab what you need when you need it.  But the only way that you’re going to know to go grab what you need is if you’ve already opened up to the awareness that this is the tool that you’re choosing to support your child’s language development as they grow.  And the other thing that makes it – what I try to do in each module, and just so you are aware and your listeners are aware, each lesson is five minutes or less.

Kristin:  Oh, wonderful.

Cara:  And you don’t even have to think about it.  When you sign up for the course, you get your introduction email, and then once a day, you get a “Here’s your lesson one” email, “Here’s your lesson two” email.  All you have to do is click, watch, and go implement it.  And I did this on purpose because as a teacher, I know that building the habit of signing, creating it as just part of the culture of your home, is what’s going to create long-term transformational results for you.  And so building a habit takes about three weeks.  My course takes three weeks.  And you get one sign a day delivered to you for 21 days in a row, and you have created a new, healthy communication habit that not only is creating the dictionary of your new baby’s brain, but it also takes some of the stress of that early communication between yourself and the other members of your household down a few notches.  And that’s my favorite thing, when I hear people say, “I feel calmer and I feel more confident knowing I’m doing something wonderful for my child.  But also, it’s really helping everybody else in the house stay connected, too.”

Kristin:  I love it.  Yeah, and if there are other children in the house, they can engage.  So it’s beautiful.  And then of course as the modules continue and questions arise, is there an interaction component that our listeners can expect?

Cara:  Yes.  So one of the things that matters to me is that they feel supported.  And what I have created is a virtual village.  It is a private online community for conscious moms raising world-ready kids, and we are all in there together.  And then inside the village is yet another group that is exclusively for people who are taking the sign language class, and in there, we can ask our questions.  I’m hopping into the group all the time.  They can get the answers that they need.  And then they can come back into the larger feed of the virtual village and be interacting with other moms who have same-aged kids.

Kristin:  Yeah, that interaction is so important.  Otherwise you can feel so isolated during pregnancy and certainly in early parenting.  So I love that there’s specific networking for the Sign to Speak students but also the larger community, since you have so many other programs for families.

Cara:  Yes.  And I recently was asked the question, when is the best time to take parenting classes, and quite honestly, the answer is while you’re still pregnant.  We know it’s so much easier to take care of your tiny growing human while they are inside you than after they have joined the world.  It’s a different skill set that’s required, and it’s so much more energy.  And so that’s why inside the virtual village is where I have the rest of the Womb to One digital course series, and parents can just work through it on their own time.  Concerned about the third trimester and it’s approaching quickly?  Eight weeks to go, here’s what you need to know is a course we offer.  Concerned about postpartum, what it’s going to look like when you get home from the hospital?  We have a course and it comes directly after the third trimester course.  What to expect when you’re done expecting.  And so what I tried to do is design these digital courses in such a way that they truly hold you where you are in your pregnancy journey all the way through until your child turns one year old because that first year can be the most overwhelming and hardest to keep perspective in as you navigate your daily life.

Kristin:  Agreed.  Yeah, it’s a similar focus that we have in the Becoming a Mother course in really getting our students to engage in early pregnancy, even though half of our course is focused on the early parenting and postnatal recovery and feeding options and so on.  It’s so much more beneficial to engage during pregnancy when you have the time, even if it’s your fourth child.  You have more time than caring for a newborn, and caring for yourself during recovery.  So I completely agree.  How can our listeners connect with you?  I know you’ve got an amazing website, but you’re also very engaged in social media?

Cara:  Yes, if you’re so looking to connect with me on social, we are @core4parenting on Instagram and the broad birth to five space.  If you’re looking to connect with me specifically about toddlers, you can find me @core4parenting on TikTok.  I have a channel there that’s specifically for pandemic moms raising toddlers now and the strategies that they need in order to feel successful in helping their kids meet their milestones.  And if you want more information why it’s so valuable to arm your child with ASL skills, I have a free download that I am so happy to offer your listeners, 5 Reasons To Use ASL Signs With Your Infants and Toddlers.

Kristin:  So helpful, Cara!  Any final tips for our listeners and what we didn’t cover as they’re preparing for their new baby?

Cara:  As they’re preparing for their new baby – well, since we’ve been talking about language, I’ll just leave them with this: knowing that there’s two different types of language, receptive and expressive, and your new baby comes into the world as a receiver.  They are going to be receiving everything from you.  The words you say, the way you hold them, the emotions you’re feeling.  It’s all being absorbed into their beautiful body and brain.  And so just know that what you have to put in, you’re going to be putting in for a long time before you see any of the expressive pieces start to come back at you.

Kristin:  I love it.  And that can be challenging for partners to not feel as bonded until baby is more expressive, so I love your final tip, especially as you’re looking at partners and fathers and knowing that the engagement will be reciprocal over time once they’re able to communicate.

Cara:  Absolutely.  And we’re often surprised by what comes back at us, and we say, how did they learn that?  Oh, wait, I didn’t realize everything I was doing was being put in this memory bank.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So lovely.  Well, thank you for your time today, Cara, and all of the work you’re doing.  I love everything about your program and can’t wait to connect with you more.

Cara:  The feeling is mutual.  Thank you for the space to share, and I look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

 

Kristin and English Goldsborough chat about body image during pregnancy and the importance of nutrition.  English owns The Nourishing Tree and is a functional nutritional therapy practitioner and a certified lactation counselor.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I’m joined today by English Goldsborough.  Welcome, English!

English:  Hi, Kristin.

Kristin:  And you are with The Nourishing Tree and a functional nutritional therapy practitioner.  So let us know what type of training you go through to – you know, I understand functional medicine, and I understand nutritionist, but this is a whole other category, so I’m really interested to hear your journey in this.

English:  You know, it’s kind of marrying those two things together.  So I went through the Nutritional Therapy Association.  It was back when we actually got to meet in person before things changed.  So now it’s all online, but we actually got to meet in person and do some body work and stuff like that.  We basically learned all about the ancestral diet, you know, how cultures ate in the past, where things kind of took a turn, not for the better, as far as the industrialization of foods, that kind of thing.  The turning food into not food, that kind of thing.  A lot about how the whole body works as a whole system and how when we put the right foods in the body, it works how we want it to.  When we feed it foods that it doesn’t realize is foods, it doesn’t necessarily work like we would want it to.  So I started there and then went on to some extra trainings after that to tie in the lab work and things like that.  But very Weston A. Price foundation type.

Kristin:  Nice.  And you’re also a certified lactation counselor, so that works very well in conjunction with the nutrition and functional medicine.

English:  Yes.  I like to tie in the whole preconception, prenatal, postpartum, lactation, the whole nine yards, right?

Kristin:  Yes, because it’s so important to focus on the food that you’re putting in your body when you’re feeding your baby.  So I really love that you combined all of that.

English:  Thank you.  I find it important.  I mean, I find that a lot of couples come to me when they’re struggling to conceive, and they say, okay, well my goal is, let’s get pregnant, and what I give them is a goal that’s so much bigger than that, you know, with affecting the child’s health long-term for their whole life.  So something that’s not talked about, I guess, a lot, but so important.

Kristin:  Yes, it’s key.  And you look at allergies and other things during the breastfeeding stage, and so working with a nutritionist like yourself if you need to cut out dairy or other foods would be very helpful.

English:  Absolutely.  Yes.  Absolutely, because there’s so much we can do, right?  You don’t have to suffer.  The baby doesn’t have to suffer.  We can really get things back on track, for sure.

Kristin:  So English, I would love to hear how – you talked about pre-conception, but when your clients are in the early phase of pregnancy, what is it like to work with you?  How are you checking in with their health and progress?

English:  Yeah, so a lot of times we will actually do some blood work, but we’re looking at it through the lens of pregnancy, right, because a lot of things change as we’re going through pregnancy.  So we definitely have to keep that in mind and not look at this bloodwork and compare it to someone who’s not going through pregnancy.  So we’ll look at that, but, you know, we’re really looking at nutrient status, you know, things that the mom is going to need, the growing baby’s going to need, that we’re going to need once we get into breastfeeding.  I think a lot of women initially come to me because perhaps they maybe lost weight before they got pregnant or they’re worried about gaining that back, so weight, I think, is at the forefront of a lot of women’s minds where they’re like, well, how can I have a healthy pregnancy without gaining unnecessary weight.  So a lot of it is working through what is actually – what your body wants to do, how we can honor that, those kinds of things.

Kristin:  Yes, that makes complete sense.  We have an online course that we launched during the pandemic called Becoming A Mother, and our first module goes into a lot about that body image and how you feel as your body’s changing, especially for women who’ve had past issues with weight fluctuation or just their overall body image in general.  And so getting on that scale for every appointment can be triggering if someone has had an eating disorder or is feeling pressured about weight gain, especially carrying multiples and so on.

English:  Yes, very triggering, and a lot of times, the body, especially in those first two trimesters, right – and I’m sure you all touch on this in your program – but the body’s just doing what it was designed to do, and it’s putting reserves away for that third trimester where in that third trimester, the baby’s going to need all those glucose stores.  So the mom then starts to burn her fat stores, so in those first two trimesters, the body’s preparing for that, and it can just feel a little unsettling if you don’t know that, if you’re not prepared for that.  It can just feel so different.  We just have to find that healthy balance where we’re not undereating and not overeating those processed foods.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So many people that pregnancy is an excuse to fulfill every craving or go get that fast food.  I tell my clients focus on eating whole foods and healthy and nourish your own body and your own baby.

English:  You are my kind of person.  I think sometimes when we utter those words, right, where we tell someone – especially when someone’s pregnant, you don’t want to offend them, so a lot of people think, oh, well, you shouldn’t tell a pregnant mother what she should or shouldn’t be eating.  You should just let her do her thing.  But it really is kind of a disservice because it’s not setting the mom or the baby up for health, and that’s not fair.

Kristin:  I love it.  I mean, it sets the foundation for everything and can really – I mean, there’s so many studies now showing that getting proper nutrition during pregnancy can prevent things like preeclampsia.  I mean, if you’re low in vitamin D3 or vitamin C and so on.  So just really focusing on your health can prevent a lot of issues.

English:  Absolutely.  I mean, our diet, our lifestyle, infections that you came into pregnancy with, stress – I mean, the stress that a mom feels during pregnancy has that – I guess it’s called stress hardiness with the baby and it teaches the baby whether stress comes and goes or whether it’s constant, that kind of thing.  And that can come in the form of diet, too.  So yes, not saying, oh, I’m 12 weeks pregnant; my baby needs a whole chocolate cake.  Hmm.  I don’t think baby is the one that wants that.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Do you ever get into what cravings mean, like if someone’s like, oh, I’m just craving, like, a Big Mac or whatever, and what certain – whether it’s savory or sweet foods, what might lead to an imbalance?

English:  Yeah, so I don’t offhand remember what each of them are, but for sure.  I mean, it goes back to an example I use with a lot of clients to where you can sit down with a bag of chips and eat the whole thing and still feel like you’re hungry, and that’s because those chips are not giving your body the nutrients that it actually wants.  So your body keeps telling you, we’re hungry, and it’s not because it’s hungry for more chips or more calories even.  It’s hungry for those nutrients that it’s not getting.  So when we really honor the body’s signals and start eating a lot of healthy fats and vegetables and fruits and meats and the things that it really does need, the hunger signals can be satiated.  So, yes.  And I think I do have a chart that I use with clients as far as, if you’re craving this, then you need maybe some magnesium, or if you’re craving this, maybe more vitamin C.  And cravings really do – once you start to eat all the whole foods and not so much the processed Frankenfoods, the cravings really start to go away.  At least in the sense of like, oh, my God, I have to have that right now kind of thing.

Kristin:  Yes, I would think so, and I’m sure you work with clients who are dealing with gestational diabetes or other forms, you know, type A and so on.

English:  Yes.  And we kind of can get into a tough position if we’ve let it go for a while, right?  So we have to set realistic expectations as far as how long it’s going to take to really get the insulin sensitivity back, but it’s never too late.  We can always make progress.  But yeah, realistic.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  As you’re working with clients and they’re preparing for the postnatal phase, what are your top tips for simplifying meals, making things easy again, avoiding processed foods, as they’re in the nesting stage and doing all of the baby prep?

English:  Yes.  So one, leaning on the people around you, I find to be super helpful.  Not that a woman can’t do it on her own, but I think a lot of times we as women put all that pressure on ourselves to get it all done, right?  So we are going to birth.  We are going to breastfeed.  We are going to make our own meals and clean the house and do the dishes, and we don’t have to do those things.  We can ask for help, and we should get help, and that’s fine.  And then as far as meals and stuff go, smoothies have always been really helpful.  Things that super simple, like picking a meat; picking a vegetable; pick a fat.  It doesn’t have to be these complicated meals.  Sipping on bone broth throughout the day.  Adding avocados to things, those healthy fats that are really going to help nourish the body are really helpful.

Kristin:  And I always say focus on hydration with breastfeeding moms and snacks throughout the day and don’t limit it to those three meals because then you need to build up your milk supply.

English:  Yes.  You need more calories during the breastfeeding phase than you did during the prenatal phase, right, while you were growing the baby, and society tells us, okay, well, right after you have that baby, you should go back and be back to your prebaby weight.  That’s not – yeah, that’s not – that’s not what we want to do.  That is not honoring our body and our baby, and society just sends us those terrible signals with that.  Because I do have a lot of women that are like, well, I’m X amount of weeks out of pregnancy, you know, since delivery.  Why is the weight not coming off?  And then we have to have that discussion of, that’s because your body doesn’t want the weight to come off.  It needs that weight.  It’s there for a purpose.  So let’s continue eating what we should because depriving our body of the nutrients that it needs is really just going to backfire in the end, anyway.  So it’s there for a reason, and we can work on it later, but forcing your body to lose weight is never going to be the answer, anyway.

Kristin:  Yeah, just to get back into those jeans when you’re not supposed to be working out initially.  You’re healing.  You’re supposed to be resting and bonding with baby.  Yes, but there is – you’re so right, English.  There’s just way too much pressure on women to get back to work, get back to keeping the household, to look a certain way.  And it’s just – we need to give ourselves a break and like you said, ask for support.  I mean, our postpartum doulas, we can do some light meal preparation, get snacks and household things so you can really again focus on rest and bonding.  We offer feeding support.  There are so many other services you can look into, but that’s just one.  You know, hiring a housekeeper is helpful.

English:  I saw a meme that kind of just stuck with me – or we can call it a meme, I guess – that it was like all your friends come over to see you after you have your baby, and they all want to hold the baby, right, but really what we as friends should be doing is doing some housework for the new mom.  Let the mom spend the time with her new baby, and we can help pick up the slack around the house.  And that kind of stuck with me.  We go see this new baby and we want to love on the new baby, but that’s not what we should be doing.  We should be more that tribe that supports the new mom and helps her around the house instead.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Traditional cultures, it’s all about caring for the mother, and of course, helping with newborn care, but really nourishing her and allowing her to heal.  Like looking at Malaysian cultures and, again, other traditional focus on the first 40 days as being a primary time for rest and bonding and nutrition.  If only it were like that here!

English:  I know.  It’s just interesting, the pressures that we put on ourselves, I guess, you know, because you see it around whether it’s a movie or just societal or what have you, the perfect way that you should be.  And it’s just – that’s not real.  It shouldn’t be, anyway.

Kristin:  Yeah, and then like you said, friends asking how you can help, and I find as a birth doula one of the most important things that a friend can do is really ask how you’re doing and allow the sharing of the birth story or whatever is going on or just talking about the changes of being a new mom or having yet another baby and really hearing the woman out versus talking about how cute the baby is.  It’s like there’s so much focus on that new baby, and then the mother can sometimes feel lost.

English:  Yes.  Right?  And there’s not much education – and I’m sure there is, you know, if you’re a doula, right, which is why it’s so important, but if somebody doesn’t have that resource, there’s not much education that goes into how the postpartum period is going to go.  So there’s probably a lot of surprises, and you’re just not sure how to navigate that.  You might feel alone.  You might feel like you’re weird, that nobody else went through this because nobody else talked about it.  So there’s almost a little bit of suffering on your own.  There doesn’t need to be.

Kristin:  Exactly.  The same applies for us.  We love to walk with clients from the moment they conceive through the first year of a child’s life, but if someone has had their baby and they want to reach out to work with you, what does that look like?

English:  Like I said, it’s not like it’s ever too late because those first 1000 days, that critical 1000 from conception to age three is so important for shaping the epigenetics of the baby for the rest of their life.  So we can work through that.  We can work through mom’s health.  You know, even if you didn’t necessarily prepare pre-conception, that doesn’t mean after, we can’t work on those things, especially because pregnancy tends to steal those nutrient stores.  We just kind of work on your realistic goals, right, like if we’re breastfeeding, there’s a lot of things that we’re going to put on hold until that’s finished, which the breastfeeding is going to be more important, right, and that’s fine.  But just getting those minerals back, those nutrients back, working on resting where we can, stress management, adjusting to new life.

Kristin:  Do you have a different focus with twins and triplets as far as working on a plan than you would if someone were pregnant or newly postpartum with one baby?

English:  Yeah, I actually have only gotten to work with one female who had twins.  So that’s not a huge experience that I’ve had.  Now, I will say I have twin sisters, so my mom had twins, and it was baby five and six for her, and I can tell you, she was super nutrient depleted.

Kristin:  I’m sure, yes.  And there weren’t any resources.

English:  Yeah.  Had I had this education now – I mean, I was young at the time.  I didn’t have it.  But so many things I would go back and be like, oh, mom, you really need to work on this because you grew two whole humans.  Or in the case of triplets, three whole humans.

Kristin:  Exactly, and if they continued to breastfeed, then they’re even more depleted than feeding one baby.  So yeah, and obviously, you customize to whatever the needs are: health issues, dietary issues, celiac, and so on.

English:  Yes.  And I did hear that breastfeeding actually cuts the risk of celiac in the babies down, like, some odd 57% or something like that.

Kristin:  Wow, I had not heard that.  That’s amazing.

English:  There’s not much research on it yet, and there’s even less research on how the genetics and the health of the babies changed just in birth, whether it’s vaginal birth, C-section birth, what drugs are used, not used, that kind of thing.  But the breastfeeding – yeah, it cuts down a lot of celiac, IBS, that kind of thing.  Kind of magical, really.

Kristin:  That is amazing.  So any final tips for our listeners as far as focusing, whether it’s body image or anything we discussed?  I’d love to hear your top takeaways.

English:  I think the main thing that I would like to remind everybody is that pregnancy and postpartum is such a tender time, and you use so many resources, and it’s just so beautiful, that we all really just need to cut ourselves not necessarily slack but give ourselves grace, I guess, is how I would say it, and just honor the fact that the body knows what it needs to do.  So fighting it isn’t necessarily what we need to do.  Honoring the ebb and the flow of gaining some weight and that is okay.  It’s going to get us farther in the long run.

Kristin:  Perfect.  Yes.  100% agree.  So English, how can our listeners and our clients connect with you, and what virtual options do you have if our listeners are not located in Kentucky?

English:  They can find me at my website.  My Instagram is @nourishingtreelou.  There is a link on there where they can schedule a complementary consultation.  So we can really just sit down and discuss what stage of life you’re in, what your goals are, that kind of thing.  But everything is really Zoom now.

Kristin:  Yes.

English:  It makes it super easy, right?  And it’s a little different because you don’t get that face to face interaction, but it’s super convenient for anybody anywhere, really across the world, right?

Kristin:  Yeah, you can help anyone in the world now.

English:  Yes.  It is – it’s cool.  It’s definitely a different vision that I had kind of going into business, but I like it, and it works.

Kristin:  Same.  With us, we’ve changed.  We’ve had to pivot.  Many of our classes are virtual, and we’re just going back to some in person and created a course due to the pandemic.  I love being able to reach people outside of our footprint in Michigan.

English:  Yes.  And it’s so different than 20 years ago when people had a business.  It’s cool.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So what’s next for you?

English:  Oh, wow.  Well, in personal life, we’re actually headed – we’re going to try out a couple different cities.  Now that everything is virtual, we’re going to kind of “live” in different cities for a month at a time.  I call it “virtual virtual” because I already see everybody virtually, so it’s just a little bit farther away, maybe, each time.  So we’ll be doing that.  Just kind of continue seeing clients one on one, eventually get back into some group work with some couples.  That’s kind of what’s on my plans.  I’m always open to whatever the world throws at me.

Kristin:  Awesome.  Well, maybe a book will come your way.

English:  That’s really not my strong suit.  I’ve heard that’s a lot of work.

Kristin:  Yes.  We are in the process, so it is a lot of work.

English:  I was going to say your yes sounded like a yes from personal experience.  It’s probably so worth it, but I have heard it is quite the beast to take on.

Kristin:  Yeah.  There’s so many ways to reach people with social media.  I love it.  Well, thanks so much for your time, English!  It was so good to get to know you, and I love all of your tips.

English:  I appreciate you having me on!  This is a joy.  Thank you.

Kristin:  Thanks.  Have a great day!

Thanks for listening to Gold Coast Doulas.  Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.  If you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a five-star review.  Thank you!  Remember, these moments are golden.

We chat with Jodi Klaristenfeld, founder of FLRRiSH, about navigating the NICU and supporting moms of preemies.  You can listen to this complete podcast episode on iTunes, SoundCloud, or wherever you find your podcasts.

Welcome.  You’re listening to Ask the Doulas, a podcast where we talk to experts from all over the country about topics related to pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and early parenting.  Let’s chat!

Kristin:  Hello, hello.  This is Kristin with Ask the Doulas, and I am here today to chat with Jodi Klaristenfeld.  Jodi is a preemie mom who understands what it means to be a NICU parent.  She created FLRRiSH as a result of her own personal experiences and stresses as a preemie mom.  Welcome, Jodi!

Jodi:  Thank you, Kristin!  It’s so nice to be here on your podcast and spread the word about preemie awareness for families and just overall parental wellness and mental health wellness.

Kristin:  Thank you for sharing your story.  I would love to start from the beginning with your pregnancy journey and also chat a bit about your postpartum experience as a preemie mom.

Jodi:  Sure.  I had a relatively easy pregnancy for the first 28 weeks, and the next four days were quite difficult.  I was so sick, actually, that when I was in the hospital with my mom, my OB said to my mom, if I have to choose, who do I choose?  That’s how dire of a situation and how quickly my easy pregnancy turned, you know, not so easy.  I had what’s called HELLP syndrome where your body organs start to shut down and you reject, actually, the pregnancy, and it’s best described as the, I’ll say, severe and often deadly form of preeclampsia.  My blood pressure was 190/160.  My platelets were extremely low.  They were giving me platelets, actually, as they were delivering my daughter, and at the same time, they weren’t sure whether they would be able to do a simple C-section or whether I would need a hysterectomy or anything like that.  Thankfully, I did not need a hysterectomy, and thankfully, we’re here today and my daughter’s doing great and I’m doing great.  It just took a while.  I didn’t get to meet my daughter for three days because I was hallucinating from the medicine to help with the blood pressure situation and all the other ailments related to HELLP syndrome.  But at the same time, I was also in no mental condition, either, to see her, as well.  On top of that, my husband happened to have been in Europe because, you know, she was born 12 weeks early.  This was his last business trip he was going to take.  Fortunately, my mom was in town because we were going to do some layette stuff.  You know, pick out some cute outfits and things like that.  But little did we both know that I would be checking into the hospital for an 11-day stay instead, and my daughter for a 77-day stay.

Kristin:  So what was it like to meet your daughter for the first time after you’re getting off the meds and you’ve gone through the stress of labor and early labor?  What was that moment like?

Jodi:  Well, I didn’t have a labor.  I was an emergency C-section.  They completely knocked me out.  That’s how dire of a situation it was.  And insofar as I was still in the labor and delivery room right next to the OR room for three days until I moved to the room closest to the NICU on the opposite side of the floor.  I was that case that the entire floor knew who I was, and I couldn’t quite figure out why.  But when I went to go visit my daughter, I don’t remember much, and that really upsets me to no end, I think because myself, I was still so sick and fragile, and I didn’t know what I was going to see, either.  But I remember that I wanted to take a wheelchair into the NICU, and my husband was like, no.  You can walk.  You can do this.  He goes, I will push the wheelchair behind you or I’ll get a nurse to push the wheelchair, but you are not – because he’s like, I know you can walk the steps now.  And it was probably maybe 10 or 15 steps, so we’re not talking a great distance, but after having had a C-section, first of all, you know.

Kristin:  Major surgery, yes.

Jodi:  Yes, and also just the overall, you know, trauma to my body.  I was just really scared.  But, you know, and I remember seeing her name on her isolette and just crying and my husband saying to me when I got over to the side of the basinet where I could see her better – he goes, “Well, does she look like a Jenna?”  And I’m like, of course she looks like a Jenna!  I just can’t remember much after that.  I think I was just overcome with emotion and so happy to see her and meet her, yet so scared and terrified at the same time.

Kristin:  So how long was she in the NICU, and how many days did you stay in the hospital before going home and navigating the back and forth?

Jodi:  I was in the hospital 11 days, and she was in the NICU 77 days.  It was the weirdest feeling to me to leave the hospital without my daughter.  I couldn’t understand it.  I knew she was in the place where she needed to be to get the care in order to help her survive and grow, but at the same time, I think when most women, myself included, unless you have a history or someone in your family, maybe, that’s gone through something similar, you don’t think that when you’re going to go have a baby that you’re not going to leave the hospital with your child.  You think, oh, I’ll be in the hospital two, three days, you know, assuming everything’s fine, come home with the baby.  And that was not the case by any stretch of the imagination.  So it was a very confusing, you know, time.  I wanted to stay in the hospital, but I wanted to get some fresh air.  I didn’t want to leave my daughter.  And I was also told still because my blood pressure was high that – and this was January.  She was due in April, and she was born in January.  And we live in New York, so I was told if the weather – the temperature got below a certain – like, freezing, I wasn’t allowed outside and I couldn’t go and visit her because it’s a lot more strain on your heart and your body to do work when it’s so cold out.  And they didn’t want me to elevate my blood pressure any more than it already was.

Kristin:  Makes perfect sense, yes.

Jodi:  Yes.  But there were some days like that, and in that first week I was home, there was, I think, two days like that.  And I remember feeling like I was the worst mother.  I already felt like I was the worst mother, you know, that somehow I did this to her.  I caused this.  And then I was thinking to myself, well, all the NICU doctors and nurses are going to think even worse of me because I’m not visiting my child and doing kangaroo care and holding her for hours.  I’m just leaving her there.  But as I got stronger, too, those – you know, that was lifted in terms of the temperature because I got stronger and I got better.  But at first, you know, I had to listen to what all the doctors said.

Kristin:  Of course.  So you’re trying to focus on your own recovery and then, you know, worried about Jenna and her recovery.

Jodi:  Yes.  And just – you know, it’s a feeling, and I say this to people kind of like when you’re trying to get pregnant.  It’s kind of like you have no control.  You can do things to put yourself in the best position to help yourself and help – you know, help your child at this point, but basically, right, there is no reading of a manual.  There’s no spreadsheeting.  There’s no nothing, really, that can help with the process.  Jenna just needed time like all NICU babies.  They just need time to eat, sleep, and grow.  And it sounds so trite to say it that way, but it’s the truth.  You know, they told us to figure she would come home around her due date, and I remember saying to my husband, like, but she’s not due for such a long time.  I don’t understand.  And sure enough, she came home three days before her due date.  I mean, they were right about everything.  And I will say this: special shoutout to all the doctors and nurses in the NICUs, and also my OB.  They’re lifesavers and angels and heroes.  They are people of a personality that is like no other.  The patience to deal with parents in such a stressful situation and to be able to calm the parents down and take care of the children at the same time and provide, you know, some comfort and instruction is amazing.  It’s a special person.

Kristin:  I completely agree.  My daughter was only in the NICU for four days, but they are very special, and I felt so comforted when I left the hospital with my daughter still in the NICU.  But I couldn’t imagine, you know, having a much more extended time period to again go back and forth and communicate.  So what obstacles did Jenna face as she is growing?

Jodi:  When she was first born, and this is what I tell people all the time: do not Google, for this very reason.  There were a host of things.  She had a premature retina of the eye.  She had a hemangioma on top of her head.  She had really bad gas, like reflux, to the point where some days her belly looked like the biggest part of her body.  And she had ASD, also known as atrial septal defect, so that is a hole in the middle chamber of your heart so the blood flows both ways between the left side and the right side.  So of course I took it upon myself to Google what exactly that was, and I went down a rabbit hole.  It was not good, and I told my husband after that I would not Google, and to this day, I still haven’t.  But thankfully by the time she was 18 months old, the hole had closed up, so they did not have to do surgery.  And it was during COVID when – the height of COVID when we had this appointment, and I remember saying to the doctor, like, I really want to hug you right now.  I know I can’t, but I was just – it was like raining down my face because I was just so, so happy to – yeah, and we had to see specialists for her acid reflux.  She had to have an upper GI while she was in the NICU just to rule out, you know, that there wasn’t any type of blockage or something, and it turns out that she needed this special formula to supplement my breastmilk, so with many of the NICU babies, on top of the moms pumping, because you can’t nurse, they add formula to it to help them gain weight and get necessary nutrients.  And it took four different ones to finally find one that worked and her gas, like, went away.

Kristin:  Amazing.

Hey, Alyssa here.  I’m just popping in to tell you about our course called Becoming.  Becoming A Mother is your guide to a confident pregnancy and birth all in a convenient six-week online program, from birth plans to sleep training and everything in between.  You’ll gain the confidence and skills you need for a smooth transition to motherhood.  You’ll get live coaching calls with Kristin and myself, a bunch of expert videos, including chiropractic care, pelvic floor physical therapy, mental health experts, breastfeeding, and much more.  You’ll also get a private Facebook community with other mothers going through this at the same time as you to offer support and encouragement when you need it most.  And then of course you’ll also have direct email access to me and Kristin, in addition to the live coaching calls.  If you’d like to learn more about the course, you can email us at info@goldcoastdoulas.com, or check it out at www.thebecomingcourse.com.  We’d love to see you there.

Kristin:  This was all new to you, obviously, like the terms, and you said that you hadn’t had relatives or friends really navigate this, so it’s a whole new experience.

Jodi:  Yes.  I mean, daily it was a whole new experience.  I was very fortunate in that I was able to be at the NICU every day or at least every day, like I said, except for those beginning days.  And I made sure I was there for rounds in the morning so that I could understand or try and understand what was going on, what they were looking for or not looking for, and ask a million questions of all the doctors because at that point, aside from, like, the specialists, like the pediatric cardiologist or the pediatric ophthalmologist, all the other specialists did the rounds at each of the isolettes, so you can ask a million questions, you know, if you wanted to.  And so I took it upon myself to learn as much as I could because, you know, to your point, there is so many terms, and they use a lot of acronyms, understandably so.  That’s their vernacular, that I couldn’t begin to understand.  And I would write them down in a journal because when they would do the rounds, they would hold the baby.  I wasn’t holding the baby.  So I could write things down, and then I’d ask afterwards, oh, what does this mean?  What does that mean?

Kristin:  And I know you’ve got a download of those terms, which is so helpful, from your website.

Jodi:  Yes.  You know, I tried to make everything actually in laymen’s terms.  I think that’s so important.  Yes, you can ask all the questions you want, but you still also then have to remember that or write it down or something.  So for me, I thought it was helpful to help other parents by providing all of the terms but in regular, general vernacular, not so technical that it would be difficult to understand.  And, you know, I just felt so strongly that I knew I wasn’t the only other mother out there in the world experiencing what I was experiencing and that I knew I somehow had to turn this experience into lemonade, as they like to say.

Kristin:  It’s beautiful.  So tell us a bit more about the programs you run at FLRRiSH and how moms – say they’re on bedrest and they’re anticipating, or they’re expecting twins, triplets, and want to get ahead of the challenges the NICU may bring versus someone who may not, you know, have that awareness that the NICU is part of their journey.

Jodi:  Right.  I think the thing is, even if you are on bedrest and you have that awareness, it’s still overwhelming in and of itself.  You know, I think it’s important to note that, again, even if you have twins or triplets, chances are they won’t be full term and they will have somewhat of a stay in the NICU.  And it’s okay to feel overwhelmed.  It’s okay to feel upset and sad and frustrated.  I always tell people that’s the most important thing.  Allow yourself to feel before trying to learn anything.

Kristin:  Yeah, you almost have to grieve what you envisioned your birth to be like.  I know I had preeclampsia, and as I am in my room without my baby, my first child, and the photographer’s coming in and lactation and I’m getting all of these visitors and there’s not a baby with me – she’s in the NICU.  There is a bit of that grieving, you know, as you’re turning people away, like no, I don’t need photos right now.

Jodi:  Right.  Or, like, I don’t have the footprints, right, that are on a lot of parents’ birth certificates or whatever.  Obviously, that was not important for my daughter’s situation.  So, yes, you’re absolutely right.  You have to mourn that.  And it does take some time.  I want to be clear, and I just want everyone to know that, that it does take time.  It’s not like, oh, okay, this isn’t going to happen for me, and then I’m going to be fine.  You know, you really just have to allow yourself – because once you allow yourself and you can process, then you can move forward.  As with anything in life, right?  Once you deal with something, you’re like, okay, this is what has to be.  You can move forward.  So in FLRRiSH, I wanted to create that for other parents out there.  I know I say moms most of the time, but it’s for moms and dads.  It’s just that dads don’t ask for help, really, the way moms do.  And I also think the particular part about mom guilt or feeling like your body somehow betrayed you and that in turn you betrayed your child is only owned by the mother and that dads cannot relate to that.  But yes, so FLRRiSH offers – first and foremost, there are audio courses.  So there are little stories – right now, they’re only stories of mine.  I’d love to get stories from other women such as yourself, and they’re three to five minute stories, short vignettes, that I envision someone doing kangaroo care, listening to their ear pods while holding their baby on their chest.  Just about, you know, little experiences that I had; good things; some not so great things, how I overcame them, or what certain things mean or how to best help yourself and also become aware of the other parents around you.  Because I say this – one of my closest friends now is one of the moms that I met in the NICU, right, because you’re going through something similar that most people don’t go through, right?  So at least you can have each other, and therein was the crux of FLRRiSH because she and I could talk to each other, but I didn’t know really anyone else outside of that or even who had been through it, right?  So I created these stories in hopes that parents will listen and feel they’re not alone.  They’re not unsupported.  The doctors and the nurses, rightfully so, take care of the baby, but the parents are also left to process their own trauma.  Plenty of parents have PTSD afterwards or, you know, go through their own traumatizing experiences.  They might have to go through EMDR therapy depending upon the situation.  And I felt that if I could just provide some calmness and a voice of reason from a parent perspective, not from a clinical perspective, not any medical advice, but just to be like, hey, I’ve been in the trenches.  I’ve been in the thick of it just like you have.  And you will get through this, and you’re stronger than you know, and your baby is stronger than you know.  So that was important to me to help parents that way while they were actually physically in the NICU.  And on top of that, there are also resources that I have broken down state by state, county by county, where people can find out about early intervention or early start, any of those government programs, because as you know, it’s pivotal to get your child evaluated right away for those services.

Kristin:  Absolutely.

Jodi:  And how to go about doing that in your state and where to go, who’s a provider.  You know, where I live, I was given a whole bunch of information, and I share this story in the course, and the woman said to me, well, I have 30 days to file all of your paperwork, and I’m like, well, just because you have 30 days doesn’t mean you’re going to take 30 days?  She’s like, oh, yes, I can, and I said, no, no, you won’t.  You haven’t me.  Like, this is my child’s growth and development.  It’s my child’s life.  I’m not waiting any longer than I have to.  You know?

Kristin:  Good for you.

Jodi:  So just empowering parents as well and teaching them that they are their child’s advocate.  Their kid obviously doesn’t have a voice just yet, so they have to do the talking for them.  And there’s nothing wrong with being pushy and bossy.  This is your child’s future and well-being, and you just want to set them up for success.  So there’s that piece, and then there’s also one-on-one coaching, I guess, with me, if you want to call it coaching.  I currently talk to about six moms, and I have to say, I find it so rewarding just to hear them say, “Jodi, thank you.  You make me enjoy being a mother.  You understand this situation, and I’m not going crazy.”  To hear that is so rewarding because I know for myself, I wish I heard that.  And so that makes me believe that I’ve created what I wanted to create, right?  That place where parents can go to feel like they’re supported, educated, empowered, and most of all, feel like they’re not alone.

Kristin:  Beautiful.  Yeah, it’s so needed in this world.  I wasn’t aware of resources or courses and programs similar to yours.  So I was thrilled to connect.

Jodi:  You know, I just want to say, with respect to doulas caring for the moms, you know, there’s so much help and so much compassion that doulas have.  It’s another compassionate person who can help moms out through this process, you know, in a different way.  Helping them with their mild production, and even just telling them, you know what?  Kangaroo care is great.  It helps stimulate milk production.

Kristin:  Yes, skin to skin.

Jodi:  I actually loved it.  It was so funny.  My husband and I both tried to do it once we were home from the NICU because we both in a way loved it.  It was kind of special and magical in its own way because I feel like I got to bond with my daughter in a way that I never would have, and I got to experience so many things, you know, that I wouldn’t have otherwise.  And, you know, we tried to both do it at home, and we’re like, yeah, no, not the same.  But, you know, I think also, too, I will say this: my husband was instrumental, and this is where a doula or more of a lactation specialist, too, could have helped, but especially a doula if I had one.  I didn’t even want to start pumping.  I was just so sick, and I was like, no, I can do it.  I can do it.  And my daughter had donor milk at first.  She was not allowed to have my milk because of the magnesium.  So we had to wait anyway.  But I ended up – but my husband found not – there wasn’t – like, the lactation specialist and I didn’t, I’ll say, click in the hospital.  But he found one of the nurses who had recently given birth, and he’s like, you have to talk to my wife.  You have to talk to my wife.  And this is where a doula would totally come in, right?  And I ended up producing so much milk that even after I stopped pumping when Jenna was ten months old, she still had three months’ worth of milk.

Kristin:  That’s amazing.

Jodi:  They say not to keep it more than two months, and I knew I had too much, so I donated my milk.

Kristin:  Full circle.

Jodi:  Not every place would take it because I was on blood pressure medicine for a while, and I guess they didn’t want to necessarily, I guess, give that to other babies, but I found a place that would take it because I felt like I can’t throw this out.  This is like – what do they call it, liquid gold, right?

Kristin:  Exactly.  Yeah, other babies need it.  So I love that you donated, but yeah, some milk banks do have very strict rules, of course.  I’m glad you found a place to donate, and I’m sure the family was so overjoyed, as you were when you received donor milk.

Jodi:  Yeah.  Again, it’s one of those things you don’t think about.  Like, I thought of, okay, blood transfusions, right, but you don’t think about milk coming from somewhere else.  Or at least I didn’t.  And so yes, I was happy to be able to, and like I said, the woman – the nurse helped me so much.  And one thing I did learn, which I thought – I’m kind of small chested, so I thought, oh, no way am I ever going to make a lot of milk.  I made more milk than I – like, I was like a milk machine.  It was kind of funny.  My husband was like, where is all this coming from?  But yes, and I think in that case, especially for me, it would have been so helpful for someone to say to me, you know, just do this.  It’s going to be okay.  Your baby will have – there’s so much going on.  It’s just an added layer of support for women that is much needed.

Kristin:  Exactly.  So how do our listeners and doula clients connect with FLRRiSH?  I know you’re on several social media channels as well as your website.

Jodi:  Yes.  So our full-on website with all the audio and all the resources will be ready by the next month.  We had a few delays.  But until then, they can find me on Instagram @flrrish.  And our website is the same.  They can email me at hello@flrrish.com.  Or through LinkedIn.  I’m always happy to talk to anybody.  You know, any way I can help someone.  You understand.  You’re in the same place, right?

Kristin:  Of course, yes.

Jodi:  You just want to make someone’s journey better than your own.

Kristin:  Exactly.  Sharing wisdom and being a listening ear.  I love that you brought this program into the world.  Thank you very much for sharing your story and your journey.  If you have any final tips for our listeners, Jodi, I would love to hear any last NICU navigation tips.

Jodi:  Yes.  I would just say, please don’t be hard on yourself.  You know, I think as moms, first of all, we think that we have to have all the answers right away, and that is not true.  And don’t be hard on yourself, especially if you don’t bond with your baby right away.  It takes time, and especially if you have given birth early, you have to process for yourself what happened to you before you can be there for your child, and there’s nothing wrong with that.  You know, even in full term babies, there’s a large percentage, something like 18-22% of people that don’t feel instantly bonded to their child.  So know that that is okay.  And to just allow yourself to feel.  You know, there’s a whole host of emotions, and even when someone says something to you that might not be appropriate who’s a good friend, you know, they’re just trying their best to be there for you, and people just say things that, you know, when they can’t think of something else, sometimes something not appropriate comes out.  And just know in your heart that your friends really love you and they just really want to be there for you.  And also, I would say lastly, you’re not alone.  10% of moms go through this every single year.  There’s a whole bunch of us out there, and that’s why FLRRiSH, that’s why Gold Coast Doulas, that’s why there’s so many organizations out there to help you.  You are not alone.

Kristin:  Love it.  Thank you so much, Jodi!  Really appreciate the time today.

Jodi:  Thank you!  I had a great time.

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